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Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by ubernostrum on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:22AM (#14356081)
WikiLeaks and Assange are heading for a pretty mixed historical reputation right now -- WikiLeaks really needs to either get, or publish, some damaging dumps on conservative/right-wing candidates or else it's going to be remembered as just another partisan outlet focusing solely on opposition scandals.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by belorn on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:24AM (#14356818)
The leaker went to The Washington Post when they had some damaging audio tapes on the conservative. There were clearly no need to go through Wikileaks. The DNC leak on the other hand were not published by the Washington Post, and I recall how the top voted article here on HN during that day said that Washington Post had been pulling articles off their site and it was only until very late on the day that they allowed any word about the incident.

But its a bit ironic to complain about a lack of leaks about the conservatives in an article about Chelsea Manning. President George W. Bush was a conservative president and the leak provided by manning through Wikileaks was criticizing the war that Bush ran. We would not be here talking if Wikileaks did not publish dumps on conservative.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by torrent-of-ions on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:22AM (#14356809)
What if there aren't any? Or what if they just don't get leaked due to lack of whistleblowers or better security? You can't say Wikileaks has an agenda because it only receives certain type of leaks.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by k-mcgrady on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:56AM (#14357233)
As long as the information is real why should a slant matter? I'll never understand the 'my guy did something but I bet yours did too' attitude.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by Hydraulix989 on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:47AM (#14356173)
Really? I don't see the slant.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by salvar on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:36AM (#14356358)
Selling anti-Clinton merchandise doesn't seem very unbiased to me: http://www.salon.com/2016/10/14/bill-clinton-bimbo-poll-wiki...
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by sergers on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:01AM (#14356455)
Podesta/Clinton were specifically going after Assange(and WikiLeaks)... The whole reason he was seeking asylum.

Assange himself admitted it was payback,

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by salvar on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:01AM (#14358490)
Not questioning that, but doesn't it kind of destroy the notion of Wikileaks being unbiased when it came to the US elections?

"This is payback because she's coming after me, but otherwise we disseminate information in a fair and balanced way" doesn't seem plausible to me.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by crdoconnor on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:18AM (#14357087)
This was bad:

"Can't we just drone strike this guy?" -- Clinton, on Assange

Clearly selling t-shirts is worse though.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by ascorbic on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:40AM (#14357169)
Poor taste maybe, but clearly a joke. Unless you think she was suggesting a drone strike on central London.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jessaustin on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:58AM (#14357247)
Those who have murdered dozens of people via some method, are rarely funny when attempting to joke about that method.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by crdoconnor on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:50AM (#14357205)
No, but I think she was suggesting assassination in what she considered to be a light-hearted manner.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by lern_too_spel on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:12AM (#14358567)
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jessaustin on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @12:50PM (#14360269)
From that link:

“sources at the State Department,” a vague and anonymous reference that does not yield to verification.

Anonymous sources are unreliable? That seems important to remember...

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by lern_too_spel on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @10:31PM (#14364457)
It's exceedingly unlikely that a State insider would talk to TruePundit, which was virtually unknown before this story, instead of WaPo, or Fox News if they really had an axe to grind.

The WSJ has a record of having anonymous sources whose stories pan out. TruePundit not so much.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by crdoconnor on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:48PM (#14360880)
Check out the non-denial denial video by Hillary at the end. First "I don't recall" followed by "if it did happen, it was a joke".

Why wouldn't she simply deny it if it wasn't true?

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by salvar on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:59AM (#14358467)
I wasn't making a comparison. I was saying that selling merchandise mocking/targeting one candidate and not the other makes you seem quite biased.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by crdoconnor on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:40PM (#14360792)
A) Why is their bias relevant? Their business isn't writing opinion editorials, it's releasing secrets.

B) You'd be biased too if somebody was trying to kill you for doing your job. Furthermore, why is it bad to be biased against a candidate that wants to kill you? Does it interfere with the secrets leaking process? Was Deep Throat's testimony marred by his political convictions?

C) When asked which candidate he preferred Assange said that it's like choosing between Chlamydia and Gonorrhea.

D) If there was a critical dump of Trump emails which he sat on, fair enough. There wasn't.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by salvar on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:44PM (#14362140)
A) I was responding to someone who said "I don't see the slant". That's how the slant became relevant.

B) Probably. And it would quite likely influence my choices in what information to release and what to focus on.

C) Ok?

D) How can we know there wasn't data critical of Trump's campaign that Wikileaks sat on? If Wikileaks wasn't selling anti-Hillary merchandise I'd have an easier time believing that there wasn't.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by skyrw on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:46AM (#14356399)
It's pretty easy. When they were attacking the republicans everybody on the left loved them. Now they are attacking the democrats, ergo they have zero credibility and are working with our enemies.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:41AM (#14356154)
Remember that time Sarah Palin had to release her personal email acct? All that shady stuff, Spirit Cooking, $65k on 'hotdogs'? No? It's pretty telling when the people on the other side demand that their 'opposition' 'must be' just as bad.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:53AM (#14356198)
Wow, you're talking about Pizzagate. Are you serious or trolling? Please don't spread that junk.

You may think it's a joke, but some people will believe even obvious nonsense if you keep repeating it. Back in December, a man drove to Washington to "self-investigate" with a gun: https://www.google.fi/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017...

Alex Jones has apologized for spreading this story. Don't be worse than him.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:57AM (#14356213)
"wow" I'm taking about stuff you could easily source.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/15893

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/12/1223066_re-get-ready-f...

How many times did the Clinton's visit that island?

Bernie people: Please read Skippy's email.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:41AM (#14356382)
Do you have any idea who Marina Abramovic is? This stuff is insane.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:48AM (#14356406)
Yes. I agree. One only has to look into history a bit.

https://i.redd.it/5nuf25zglpvx.jpg

How about that island?

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:54AM (#14356435)
That picture is presumably from her piece The Artist is Present [1] at the MoMA in 2010, where any visitor could sit opposite her.

Any visitor. AT THE FUCKING MOMA. How many pictures of her do you think were taken?

The links you posted didn't have anything about an island, so if you want me to do your googling for you, please be more precise.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Abramović#The_Artist_Is...

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:13AM (#14356510)
Any visitor, of course. Sounds like you know who that visitor is.

The island is Little St. James.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:36AM (#14356598)
I don't know who is the person in the picture you posted. And how am I supposed to find out when you just post random pictures with no context?

What are you trying to accomplish with all these bizarre hints ("sounds like you know...")? Do you think I'm part of some conspiracy?

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:00AM (#14356714)
I don't think you are part of some conspiracy. The vagueness is because you seem to hold a strong opinion on this subject and I wanted to know if you were aware of the basics.

The 'sounds like you know' is because I incorrectly assumed you swearing about that pic meant you knew who that is. It's a totally reasonable reaction. That's Anthony Weiner (former congressman). Joe Biden knows him well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdCuDF4u5Yg

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:20AM (#14356802)
You misunderstand why I'm swearing about the pic.

It's from a performance art piece that lasted 736.5 hours. Abramovic sat there quietly all that time, anyone could sit down with her, there was no vetting. Assuming an average of two minutes per visitor, she received 22,095 people. I would guess most of us don't meet that many people in our lifetimes.

It's literally the same as if you posted a picture of me in the Louvre looking at a painting and standing next to someone you don't like, and then suggested this evidence proves I'm part of a paedophile ring with this person.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:59AM (#14356978)
I'm def not trying to make this personal, your hypothetical 'literal' frame implies I failed.

Maybe pedo rings don't exist, or maybe it's not something some elite have a history of. Maybe I have no good reason to mention that island, or these people. You made it clear you don't know the who what or where on subjects I suggested are pretty basic and related, yet you seem sure you are informed. If you want to know more, you could. It's not something anyone can effectively research in an evening unless you decide to dismiss it.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:38AM (#14357164)
> I'm def not trying to make this personal, your hypothetical 'literal' frame implies I failed.

I guess I was offended that Marina Abramovic is dragged into this on the flimsiest of evidence. She is one of the leading artists in the world, and this kind of malicious gossip is the complete opposite of the radical openness and self-consciousness that she lives through her work.

That's probably why this character assassination feels personal: if it can happen to her, it can happen to anyone.

> You made it clear you don't know the who what or where on subjects I suggested are pretty basic and related, yet you seem sure you are informed. If you want to know more, you could. It's not something anyone can effectively research in an evening unless you want to just dismiss it.

Here's the thing though: it's not something anyone can effectively research over the Internet -- full stop!

Edgar Welch, the Pizzagate gunman who drove to Washington to investigate the Comet restaurant, believed he had done deep research on this. His family said to reporters that he spent months obsessing about it. One day, he had enough. This is what happened next:

  "According to texts cited by prosecutors, Welch believed he was doing a public service.

  'Raiding a pedo ring, possibly sacraficing [sic] the lives of a few for the lives of many,' Welch wrote to one friend.
  'Standing up against a corrupt system that kidnaps, tortures and rapes ­babies and children in our own back yard.'

  He added: 'I’m sorry bro, but I’m tired of turning the channel and hoping someone does something and being thankful
  it’s not my family. One day it will be our families. The world is too afraid to act and I’m too stubborn not to.'

  When he went to Washington, Welch took with him the assault weapon, a .38 revolver and a 12-gauge shotgun.
  When he walked into the restaurant, diners, including families with children, fled in panic.

  According to court documents, Welch fired the rifle several times at a locked closet door, damaging computer equipment,
  and aimed the gun at an employee who had entered the back of the restaurant and promptly ran back out. No one was injured.

  Welch later said he regretted his actions."
(Quoted from https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/25/comet-ping-p...)

Do you think Welch was well-informed by Internet research?

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:50PM (#14362192)
You could find out plenty about that island on the net without actually visiting it if you wanted to.

Also, you brought her up, and are mass pasting when you could just link, yet not a word about the island.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Thursday May 18, 2017 @04:14AM (#14365613)
Also, you brought her up ...

No, you did. You posted a Wikileaks link to an email sent by her, and you didn't explain why it's relevant.

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by jakeogh on Thursday May 18, 2017 @06:32AM (#14366117)
O ya, it was sent by her. Small world ay?

It's not a bit surprising to most people to see Clinton's folk get excited about a dinner with _that_ ritual. I mean, heck, everyone knows that's completely normal right? (I would rather not post her demo video, but it's on yt).

And it's perfectly normal for Bill (and?) to be visiting the unmentionable island.

How about Tony Podesta's taste in art? Totally normal right? (I _really_ cant post that here out of respect for basic norms, I recommend not googling it if you don't want see some extra creepy shit).

Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by dom0 on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:54AM (#14358417)
Could you maybe re-wrap that quote? You're making the page like 2000 pixels wide.
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by pavlov on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @11:51AM (#14359648)
Sorry, I can't edit the post anymore. (HN's monospace formatting still mystifies me. I thought there is a 'max-width' style on those blocks? At least on mobile it doesn't break the entire page...)
Re:Chelsea Manning Is Expected to Leave Prison, 28 Years Early by ubernostrum on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:00AM (#14356230)
With the kind of scrutiny that comes from a mass dump of internal communications, yes, everyone is "just as bad".

Regardless of whether he ever actually said it, remember the quote attributed to Richelieu. Even an honest person's email can be spun to make them look like the greatest villain of history. Or if you prefer the modern reality-show metaphor: everyone has a "loser edit" lurking in their private data.

WikiLeaks basically only publishes "leaks" of people Assange personally dislikes/opposes. That's the definition of a partisan outlet, no matter how much you may dislike it.