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Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by jknupp on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @09:40AM (#1435501)
The outcome of this story was favorable (which is why we're reading it). I wonder, however, if there are far more stories that begin the same way but end with "You're being fired for insubordination" or something similarly negative.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by huherto on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @10:26AM (#1435647)
I have a story that backfired. I had a team of 5 developers that were working in a product. The company had been trying to build the product for several years. When I saw the architecture they were using I tried to convince the architect to make some changes. They wouldn't do it. They wouldn't even let me touch the code. I was a manager I wasn't supposed to get involved. So I thought. "It is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission". So I started to build the product from scratch. I had plenty of time and no one cared what I did. After 5 or 6 months I already had a product that was way a head than the official product. When I tried to show it to my manager he got really mad. He literally screamed at me. That was 1.5 years ago. I went in a depression for a long time. They fired the architect. They fired my manager. The developers had to spin their wheels for a long time. Then they left. And the product is still not ready.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by jfager on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:03AM (#1435760)
"Ask forgiveness rather than permission" is not equivalent to "forge ahead without thought for the consequences". Completely rewriting a codebase by yourself to show up a team that has been working on it for a long time might mean better code, but it's also a direct demonstration of the ineffectiveness of that team. Of course some kind of major shake-up is going to happen after something like that. Firing people might be a little extreme, but you certainly have to expect that it's a possibility.

If you don't have the stomach for directly causing people to get fired, or for conflict, then don't go out of your way to demonstrate how poorly they're doing their job. Find your way out to something else, and let them do themselves in.

Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by huherto on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:20AM (#1435823)
No one was fired as a consequence of what I did. They were fired because time passed and there were no results. If I had been able to convince my boss I think we would have been successful. At one moment I thought about going one level up in the organization, I decided to be loyal to my boss so I kept my mouth shut.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by Daniel_Newby on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @01:14PM (#1436217)
Ouch. Don't chain yourself to a sinking ship.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by jpablo on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @10:48AM (#1435714)
But you asked permission first. And you were told "no". That's the point of the article. Do not ask for permission first.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by nandemo on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:49PM (#1437880)
He did work 5 months on something without asking permission.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by edw519 on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:05AM (#1435764)
From the data you provide, this doesn't sound like it backfired at all.

In a difficult situation, you're the only one who did the right thing and it led to nothing. This says more about others than it says about you.

You boss got mad, yelled at you, and got fired. That's his problem, not yours. Others suffered or got fired and work wasn't finished. Again, their problem, not yours.

I think you should hold your head high and be proud. You pushed the envelope and challenged others, knowing full well that they might resist. The resulting negativity had nothing to do with your efforts and everything to do things being fucked up long before you got there. Don't let the illogical actions of others upset you, don't be depressed, and most of all, don't hesitate to continue to be proactive. The rewards may seem elusive, but believe me, you will find them.

Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by InclinedPlane on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @04:01PM (#1436826)
He wasted effort, they wasted effort, it backfired.

Just because you can say "it wasn't his fault" doesn't mean it wasn't still a failure.

Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by teej on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:19AM (#1435819)
Several years ago, I worked for a company that held a hackathon for developers. We were given one day to build whatever we wanted for a new API that was recently released. I worked on it for that day, and for many days afterwards during work hours. After three weeks of development, I was told that I would be fired unless I ceased work on the project and got back to work.

Figuring I would "beg for forgiveness" later, I kept working on it in secret. Two weeks later, it was finished and I launched it into the wild. They weren't happy, but let me stay.

Six months after launch my hackathon project had millions of users and had made the company over seven figures. I didn't end up getting fired, but I came close.

Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by jfager on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:55AM (#1435922)
That's not backfiring, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. The only way it could possibly be more storybook is if you had been fired and those 7 figures ended up directly in your pocket.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by cema on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @12:23PM (#1436021)
Or perhaps he would have been fired and the money would still go into the company's pockets.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by jfager on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @12:41PM (#1436081)
Of course that could have happened, too, but that wouldn't make for a very good storybook ending, would it?
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by jfarmer on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @12:55PM (#1436137)
I was all, "Hey, interesting story." Then I was all, "I wonder who wrote it?" Now I'm all "!!!".

The world that might have been. Do you ever think it would have been better if you had gotten fired?

Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by teej on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @07:14PM (#1437360)
I'm definitely better off now. If I had been fired, it's unlikely I would've been successful in the space. I managed to sit on lots of panels, meet some top-tier people in the valley, and make some great connections. I didn't hit a $$ homerun this way, but my long-term prospects are good.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by jfarmer on Friday June 18, 2010 @04:58PM (#1443540)
Given some of the (independent) people I know who did hit a home run, I'd say you're selling yourself short, though perhaps that depends on your definition of "home run."
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @10:11AM (#1435609)
"You're Fired" can be the beginning of a beautiful career.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by 425 on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @10:27AM (#1435648)
Exactly. Sometimes I fantasize about being laid off, so I can have excuse why I am leaving this cushy job...
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by lamby on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:02AM (#1435758)
For a small fee, I am happy to offer my services to get you fired.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by snprbob86 on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @04:40PM (#1436959)
Severance would be a nice way to get started...
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by random42 on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @01:52PM (#1436391)
Same here.
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by napierzaza on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @11:08AM (#1435772)
Your attitude reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo
Re:It's Better to Beg for Forgiveness than to Ask for Permis... by GFischer on Wednesday June 16, 2010 @01:28PM (#1436286)
It's a bit unrelated, but I'm reminded of this:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/regrets.png

Different context, same attitude :)