I'm not sure how we can successfully argue about this when it's based on experience...

For the record, I was visiting Gangding in Guangzhou (the computer District) several times between 2012-14. Every vendor I found was baffled by my request and didn't know why I would ever want this.

I bought my laptop in 2014 in Hong Kong after my UK-bought one died.

Here are the instructions from HP[0], Lenovo [1] and Dell [2] respectively on how to reinstall the Windows that comes with the machine. So it's not really "based on experience".

[0] https://support.hp.com/cn-zh/document/c01902861

[1] http://iknow.lenovo.com/detail/dc_038423.html

[2] http://www.dell.com/support/contents/cn/zh/cnbsd1/article/Pr...

I'm not saying my experience is more correct or better than yours.

I have no idea where you were/are in China, but it was impossible to buy a genuine copy of Windows or a computer with it installed when I was in Guangzhou.

In Shenzhen, I have had both of your experiences. In buying mass market, name brand laptops, legit copies of Windows were normal. But from the same electronics malls, my experience was that almost nobody bought these [much more expensive] computers, and instead preferred the cheap knockoffs with tons of pre-installed pirated software. There were also -- always -- hawkers offering ripped copies of software, music & DVDs on the street outside.

those are not knockoffs,but DIY counter or shop,no named brand,Do It Yourself,at your own interest and risk.most these DIY shops only exist in electronic components shopping malls,visitors of such malls of course prefer DIY. Most normal people just buy named brand computers pre-installed OS in normal malls,electrical shops，brand stores,and even in big supermarkets such as Carrefour. so I am very strange and shocking that Apfel can not buy a named brand computer pre-installed legal OS in the third largest city of china

For the record, I also checked my local 大润发 and 国美电器, where they did the same shit.

This is not related to experience, but common sense, all big brands of computers should sell legitimate products, such as HP, DELL, as far as I know, they also occupy a large share of the Chinese market, they are large-scale piracy in the Chinese market? Perhaps there may be some misunderstanding or communication problems, as far as I know, some big brands of computer have pre-installed operating system on the hard disk recovery partition, does not provide the operating system install disc, but the restore disc.

I've said this in another comment, but here goes again:

Actually, the laptops I tried out were almost all Dell + Lenovo (I wanted a thinkpad or XPS). I think, as another commenter said, they were probably Linux + FreeDOS systems originally. What the store owners would do is use Norton Ghost to put whatever (illegal) OS I wanted on there.

I think maybe there are large regional differences in product availability or regulation. I know it was a lot harder to buy iPhones in certain tier 1 Chinese cities than others when I was there, for example.

Maybe you were not trying hard enough. https://microsoft.tmall.com/

We've banned this account for violating the HN guidelines despite our requests to stop.

The person you're repyling to explicitly told us his experience. If you say it's not based on experience, you're calling him a liar.

His experience is very shocking, he can not buy a HP or DELL computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it in GUANGZHOU.

Actually, the laptops I tried out were almost all Dell + Lenovo (I wanted a thinkpad or XPS). I think, as another commenter said, they were probably Linux + FreeDOS systems originally.

What the store owners would do is use Norton Ghost to put whatever (illegal) OS I wanted on there.

I think bgee was saying that their side of the argument (that legal Windows is available) is not based on experience.

Or maybe he had an experience not reflecting the reality, which often happens when someone fails to overcome the language barrier.

I speak Chinese and I was with my Chinese wife. Thanks for the patronising attitude though :P

I don't think you understand what "based on experience" means in this context.

I was trying to say that this argument can be based on fact instead of experience.

How do you confirm this?

Is the Windows sticker on a laptop good enough?

Why is this downvoted? I thought the Windows sticker on a laptop is the best proof that Windows is pre-installed...

The question isn't "Is Windows installed"... it's "Is the install of Windows on a laptop legal and legitimate".

A sticker says Windows is installed... it doesn't say anything about legality.

OP said "I couldn't find a laptop with a legal copy of Windows installed". Responder said "Everything I got was legal, and had no issues buying new discs with legal licenses".

OP said "it was literally impossible to buy a computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it".

Responder said "it is quite possible (even common) to buy a computer with a legal copy of windows installed on it" and asked "is a Windows sticker on a laptop good proof for legally installed Windows?" with the assumption that pirated Windows does not come with a sticker.

PS: That assumption turns out to be debatable [0].

[0]: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21m2.8232368.0.0.TlUMn...

Don't most manufacturers pre-image OS on computers at the factory now? They usually have an option to create recover disk/sb drive.

In Asia most brands sell the laptops without OS for cheaper price compared to the same model but with windows preinstalled. Some stores may install a bootleg version for free or even fake it as a genuine Windows install.

Holographic stickers are routinely counterfeited in China: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=283

Last time I had to buy Windows install media I went directly to a Microsoft corporate store.