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Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by PeterisP on Monday May 15, 2017 @02:42PM (#14344001)
Either NSA's role involves using zero-day exploits, in which case they shouldn't disclose them; or NSA's role doesn't involve using zero-day exploits, in which case it shouldn't be looking for them and would have nothing to disclose.

You might argue whether or not NSA should be into 'hacking other people with 0-days' business or 'making computers more vulnerable' business, but NSA definitely is not in the business of making computers less vulnerable. Especially for computers located in other countries, they have no business helping to protect them - that's against their role, they're paid to facilitate the exact opposite goal.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by qb45 on Monday May 15, 2017 @03:25PM (#14344364)
> Either NSA's role involves using zero-day exploits, in which case they shouldn't disclose them; or NSA's role doesn't involve using zero-day exploits, in which case it shouldn't be looking for them and would have nothing to disclose.

Third possibility: their role involves securing domestic infrastructure, in which case they should be looking for vulns and getting them fixed. IIRC this actually is part of their statutory mandate, alongside offensive operations.

That being said, it still wouldn't help against WannaCry because Microsoft made a blunder when they disclosed the vuln by patching new versions of Windows while they left majority of XP installations unfixed. Even without the NSA leak somebody may have reverse engineered the bug from the released updates - such things happened in the past.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by willstrafach on Monday May 15, 2017 @03:49PM (#14344551)
> Third possibility: their role involves securing domestic infrastructure, in which case they should be looking for vulns and getting them fixed. IIRC this actually is part of their statutory mandate, alongside offensive operations.

This sounds similar to what IAD does. The difference is that IAD focuses on securing systems against entire classes of vulnerabilities and attacks.

SID has the mission of gathering signals intelligence, so that is why it makes sense for them to utilize individual zero day vulnerabilities. They need to get into an adversary system, so vulnerabilities are required (when needed) to get that access.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by hermitdev on Monday May 15, 2017 @04:35PM (#14344890)
How do you propose to solve the conundrum of this vulnerability is so bad, MS needs to release a fix, even for unsupported OSes, and get people still running those unsupported OSes to install the fix without disclosing there's a critical issue?
Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by qb45 on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @01:40AM (#14347603)
I'm not saying they shouldn't be disclosing that the patch is critical, I said that in the case of ancient bugs affecting all versions of Windows they should release all patches at the same time.
Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by hermitdev on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:07PM (#14415040)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what they did? Didn't they do it on the usual patch Tuesday?

I don't have any old versions of Windows installed, so I truly don't know how it rolled out there.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by qb45 on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:35AM (#14416660)
Wow, that's an old post. For currently supported versions I believe they released all patches at the same time, but XP was a problem because users without extended support contracts were left vulnerable which facilitated spread of WannaCry until they pushed updates to everyone. It's Microsoft's policy not to release fixes for unsupported versions to the public (this was an exception) and it leads to this kind of problems.
Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by yardie on Monday May 15, 2017 @03:42PM (#14344496)
> but NSA definitely is not in the business of making computers less vulnerable.

Last time I spoke with the NSA, admittedly over a decade ago at a college recruitment event, they were in that business as well. So much so that they created a hardened version of Linux that a lot of us today [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by infogulch on Monday May 15, 2017 @03:00PM (#14344161)
That looks like a false dichotomy to me. I don't see any reason why the NSA's role couldn't include protecting the nation's citizens. I mean that's the original purpose of government, no?
Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by PeterisP on Monday May 15, 2017 @04:06PM (#14344680)
NSA's role could include protecting the nation's citizens or whatever other role the US government decides to assign to NSA, but it currently does not.

In addition to it's main role of collection of foreign intelligence data (which includes breaking encryption and finding/making vulnerabilities), it does have a secondary mission of protecting US government systems. Hopefully that does mean that they have ensured that US gov't systems have been patched against those vulnerabilities. For example, Microsoft patching the SMB vulnerability (including for WinXP) before it was made public was likely done after a report from NSA, and would be consistent with such a goal. Having "private" custom patches that would get installed in sensitive gov't systems but not made available to general public would also match this goal.

However, the relationship of NSA and the main victims of WannaCry are at best neutral. For example, it seems reasonable that NSA should want companies like Spain's Telefonica to stay vulnerable to various exploits - their mission explicitly includes obtaining intelligence from (among other sources) foreign telecommunications operators, so if they had the ability to protect Telefonica, then doing so would go against the mission given to NSA by the congress.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by sillysaurus3 on Monday May 15, 2017 @03:06PM (#14344211)
The purpose of the NSA is the same as the purpose of the military: To apply force in the digital arena, the same way the military applies force in the physical arena.

In the same vein, the NSA isn't about protection. That's not their role, just like the point of the military isn't protection.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by extra88 on Monday May 15, 2017 @04:04PM (#14344659)
NSA has dual roles, not only spying on others but also protecting U.S. resources. This creates this tension between keeping exploits secret or informing vendors and others. For a long time, security researchers like Bruce Schneier have advocated for splitting the NSA up, essentially one for offense and one for defense.
Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by infogulch on Monday May 15, 2017 @03:16PM (#14344292)
> the point of the military isn't protection

I'd argue that it is, if indirectly.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by sillysaurus3 on Monday May 15, 2017 @03:18PM (#14344310)
It's true. We're all safer thanks to the enormous success of our military. That's why it's valuable, just like the NSA.

So it leads to the same logical conclusions: If the point of the military is to apply force to an opponent, then the NSA has to have ways of applying force to a digital opponent. Disclosing vulnerabilities would be precisely the opposite of what they should do.

Re:Tim Cook’s refusal to help FBI hack iPhone is validated b... by ionised on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @11:35AM (#14350374)
> We're all safer thanks to the enormous success of our military

Examples from the last 50 years?