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Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by RichardHeart on Sunday May 07, 2017 @03:18PM (#14287042)
Summary of pro death arguments re: longevity progress

  Fairness
    Only rich people will get it. (no tech has ever done this.)
    Better to give money to the poor than science. (family,city,state,nation, has proven local investment beats foreign.)

  Bad for society
    Dead people make more room for new, other people. (consider going first.)
    Run out or resources (live people discover/extract/renew better than dead or nonexistant)
    Overpopulation (colonize the seas, solar system, or have a war.)
      Stop having kids
      Worse wars (nukes are more dangerous than having your first 220 year old person in 2136)
    Dictators never die (they die all the time and rarely of age)

  Bad for individual
    You'll get bored. (your memory isn't that good, or your boredom isn't age related)
    You'll have to watch your loved ones die. (so you prefer they watch you?)
    You'll live forever in a terrible state. (longevity requires robustness.)
    Against gods will (not if he disallows suicide, then it is required.)
More people make more progress faster. I'm glad my parents didn't decide the world would be prettier or work better without me in it. Einstein, Bell, Tesla, Da Vinci etc, still alive and productive would be nice. Many literally asking for others to die out of their fear. The burden should be higher. Have courage. If living longer sucks, we'll know 100 years from now, and decide then. First 220 year old in 2136 unless you know how to make one faster than 1 year per year? And that's if you added 120 years to a 100 year old person starting TODAY.

Man up, save your family, save yourself.

P.S. Curing aging isn't immortality. You die at 600 on average by accident, and if the parade of imaginary horribles comes true, even earlier.

Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by pmoriarty on Sunday May 07, 2017 @04:02PM (#14287297)
Why do you include Einstein, Bell, Tesla, and Da Vinci while not mentioning the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis Khan?

I am not so optimisitic about what life extension and other technologies that transhumanists get excited about would mean for humanity. I am reminded of Douglas Adams:

    "Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all
    barriers to communication between different races and cultures,
    has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the
    history of creation."
Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by richmarr on Sunday May 07, 2017 @03:47PM (#14287220)
I interpreted the OP's comment to refer to the article's theme of consciousness transfer/ascension rather than countering the effects of aging, which as you point out is different.

In that context many of these arguments seem moot. Even the idea that "More people make more progress faster" becomes speculative as "people" would no longer be constrained by genetics to specific distributions of neurons.

Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by goatlover on Sunday May 07, 2017 @03:29PM (#14287124)
You'll likely die of cancer, Alzheimer's or heart disease before 600 anyway.
Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by jnicholasp on Sunday May 07, 2017 @03:36PM (#14287161)
Because a state of medical science which has solved aging will certainly not have solved cancer, Alzheimers, or heart disease.
Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by goatlover on Sunday May 07, 2017 @04:15PM (#14287383)
You would think so, but it's 2017, and despite all our impressive progress, we still heavily rely on fossil fuels and have no cure for baldness.
Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by jnicholasp on Sunday May 07, 2017 @05:04PM (#14287665)
> it's 2017, and despite all our impressive progress, we still [haven't solved x]

People tend to think that [current year] is super late and advanced in the history of the world, and seem to infer from that impression that things that haven't been solved yet are unlikely to be solved. The germ theory of disease is about 150 years old; practical uses for electricity are just over 100; powered flight is just over 100; not using horses as primary transportation is the same; etc. Now is early in the possible history of discovery. There remain hundreds of thousands of important things we don't understand, or even know about, yet.

Besides which, we are talking about a hypothetical future in which we have solved aging; to suppose that future would exist without comparably revolutionary advances in intimately connected biological problems like cancer and dementia is odd.

Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by exergy on Sunday May 07, 2017 @05:49PM (#14287886)
I think your line of argument is more odd than his. We've discovered antibiotics, and promptly created superbugs. We've gotten rid of horses, and promptly replaced horse poo with PM2.5. We've domesticated plants and animals, and promptly been rewarded with smaller brains, worse bodies, and mass extinction of fellow inhabitants of this planet.

If you believe we're doggedly and linearly solving Problems Humanity Faces one at a time, and that techno-utopia is around the corner, I think that's mistaken. We continue to remain blind to unforeseen consequences, and it is unclear to me that we'll figure them all out before we wipe ourselves off of the face of the earth.

Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by jnicholasp on Sunday May 07, 2017 @08:41PM (#14288525)
My first argument was that, in a hypothetical future world which had solved aging, it would be likely they would have also solved cancer, dementia, etc.

My second argument was that our current moment in time is not likely to be near the end of the possible tech tree, that large advances in technical knowledge and ability are very likely still in front of us, and that therefore it doesn't make sense to argue that if by now we haven't already solved [x,y] then we probably never will.

Your argument seems to be that we don't fully understand the unintended consequences of our inventions, and that there's a distinct possibility that some of those unintended consequences may cause us to go extinct before we get smart enough to stop making those kinds of errors.

I agree with that argument. I don't see any conflict between your point and my point - just between your point and some claim I didn't make about techno-utopia being just around the corner.

Some kind of "techno-utopia" does seem like a possible future, but not necessarily a probable one. I don't know if we'll make it there. We're not reasonable enough, maybe. And one of the ways in which we're unreasonable is that we tend to read into our opponents' arguments things they didn't say and impute to them beliefs we don't have evidence that they hold. That isn't helpful, and on the large scale it's distinctly harmful - it's a major part of the political polarization and divisiveness that is dragging down our collective ability to cooperate and come to reasonable compromises.

Re:My strange journey into transhumanism by Trill-I-Am on Sunday May 07, 2017 @07:57PM (#14288376)
Smaller brains?