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Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by waterlesscloud on Sunday June 13, 2010 @10:38PM (#1428688)
Calling this the worst thing that could have possibly happened to Afghanistan indicates both a lack of historical knowledge and imagination.
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by CamperBob on Sunday June 13, 2010 @10:43PM (#1428693)
Calling this the worst thing that could have possibly happened to Afghanistan indicates both a lack of historical knowledge and imagination.

Yep, now they can join modern, enlightened, resource-rich nations like Saudi Arabia and the Congo.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by bokonist on Sunday June 13, 2010 @11:52PM (#1428825)
The Belgian Congo did very well for itself. It had a very fast growing economy, the resources really helpd. Read about it: http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,866343,00.html The question is whether Afghanistan can find it's Governor Pétillon. My guess is no, because democracy does not produce men like Petlillon.
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by fgf on Monday June 14, 2010 @02:08AM (#1429034)
It would be interesting to see an estimate of how many lives the disappearance of men like him from africa cost. And have you, by the way, been reading mencius moldbug? (http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/08/from-cr...)
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by bokonist on Monday June 14, 2010 @10:30PM (#1431629)
Yes
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by td on Monday June 14, 2010 @05:26AM (#1429242)
One might say, the Belgians did very well for themselves in the Congo.
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by bokonist on Monday June 14, 2010 @10:35AM (#1429761)
That they did - they made money by growing the pie - http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by td on Monday June 14, 2010 @11:15AM (#1429884)
Sure, growing the pie, and then eating it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Congo#Colonial_economic...

I don't quite understand how pg's essay applies to the Belgian Congo, is there some specific paragraph you are referring to?

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by bokonist on Monday June 14, 2010 @08:39PM (#1431468)
You seem to imply that because the Belgians made a profit off the Congo natives that colonialism was bad for the natives. But when you make a profit by growing the pie, the result can be good for both the natives and the colonizers. The material quality of live for Congo natives has declined remarkably since the end of colonialism. As one native puts it: "Even if you go 1,000 kilometers down this river, you won't see a single sign of development. When the whites left, we didn't just stay where we were. We went backwards.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1713275,00.htm... http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1713275,00.htm...

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by td on Tuesday June 15, 2010 @04:11PM (#1433739)
There is no doubt that, in large parts of Congo, people are worse off than they were ca. 1960. But do you seriously propose a return to colonialism as the solution? Because that is what your governor Pétillon remark seems to say... I don't believe such plan could get major support in Congo atm.

My objection is with the after the fact justification of colonialism. Charity was never an objective of colonial efforts, it would be very naive to think otherwise. The fact that the rapid decolonization (which was by no means the end of foreign intervention in Congolese affairs) did not lead to a stable and prosperous independant state, is no argument in favour of colonization either.

I'm honestly surprised of the upvotes these neo-colonial comments are getting.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by tptacek on Sunday June 13, 2010 @11:10PM (#1428738)
Most people in Afghanistan would be far better off as citizens of Saudi Arabia. All three of these countries are categorically worse than the US or Europe, but "worse" is not a binary condition.
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by MichaelSalib on Sunday June 13, 2010 @11:20PM (#1428757)
Given how Saudi Arabia treats non-Arabs in Saudi Arabia, I shudder to think of how horrifically they might abuse Afghanis.
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by Daniel_Newby on Sunday June 13, 2010 @11:46PM (#1428805)
Afghanistan has few mainstream Arabs and very few Africans.

Look to the Philippines if you want an example of what good can eventually come from U.S. occupation of a fractious country. And, unlike the Philippines, Afghanistan is not an archipelago whose thousands of islands practically define the concept of obnoxious-natural-barrier.

The Chinese influence bodes well too. China practices fair and even-handed oppression, rather than trying to exterminate the One True Enemy.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by td on Monday June 14, 2010 @05:21AM (#1429236)
> Afghanistan has few mainstream Arabs and very few Africans.

I don't understand what this has to do with it. Do you mean that absence of Africans and Arabs helps in successfully building up a democracy and mining minerals?

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by Daniel_Newby on Monday June 14, 2010 @07:47AM (#1429406)
It's pretty much a prerequisite.
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by Daniel_Newby on Monday June 14, 2010 @11:32AM (#1429936)
If you disagree, then say why, don't suppress something you simply don't like. The fact is that few Arab and African cultures have ever seen much industrial success, and then only for short times. Moreover, the best known way of turning a civilized city into a demilitarized zone is to import Arabs or Africans into it, and this has been demonstrated by numerous experiments.
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by jbooth on Monday June 14, 2010 @12:09PM (#1430044)
Oh great, you're one of those bold truth tellers who can proudly espouse racism while the rest of us are too PC to recognize the obvious.

Right?

Go read some history. Specifically, all of it regarding the middle east and africa up until the present day. Heck, you can even just look at a map for a few minutes and marvel at how straight the lines are. Maybe you'll reach some more enlightened conclusions about the way things are.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by Daniel_Newby on Monday June 14, 2010 @02:20PM (#1430475)
How much would I have to pay for you to take a job waiting tables in each of (1) Frankfurt, (2) Johannesburg, (3) Harlem, (4) Omaha, and (5) Mecca? While living openly in your native persona.

I bet the answers don't have a lot to do with local rents and food prices. And for Johannesburg and Mecca tend towards infinity.

The way things are is that some people are uncivilized and appear unable to become civilized. This is not racism, just the data as they are. Which is why, in the context of this discussion, Afghanistan need not necessarily turn into the Congo because it did not start out as the Congo, and why the Chinese influence is not so ominous.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by jbooth on Monday June 14, 2010 @02:36PM (#1430517)
I don't think anyone's going to pay me the salary I expect to wait tables.

I'd much rather live in Harlem than Omaha or Frankfurt. Culture and metropolitanism are far more important to me than the amount of pigment in my immediate neighborhood, and it's very safe these days.

Your definitions of civilized are an opinion. The citizens of Mecca think you're uncivilized for a number of reasons, and I think you're uncivilized for others.

Anyways, I'm just thankful that most people don't think like you do -- I certainly wouldn't want to be lumped into the same category as you for the crime of (presumably) sharing a pigment level. People might conclude it's the natural state of white people to be deliberately ignorant about everything except their own little suburban town in rural America.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by Daniel_Newby on Tuesday June 15, 2010 @11:39AM (#1433028)
It has nothing to do with pigment levels, bigotry, racism, or any other ism. There are cultures who will stone you to death for wearing the wrong clothing, or tear you limb from limb on the spur of the moment for practicing witchcraft. They merely remain violent and barbaric when they get oil or diamonds or whatever; the natural resources do not make them that way. (The claim was that the natural resources were what changed Saudi Arabia and the Congo into violent cesspools.)
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by chopsueyar on Monday June 14, 2010 @03:08PM (#1430612)
What is a mainstream Arab?
Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by waterlesscloud on Sunday June 13, 2010 @10:55PM (#1428718)
It's really too bad there are no counter examples.

Oh, wait.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by MichaelSalib on Sunday June 13, 2010 @11:11PM (#1428743)
What would the counterexamples be?

Look, I'm sure there are countries that might be able to successfully navigate a resource find like this. They'd probably be places with few internal divisions, a relatively homogeneous population, a history of stable government and well established cultural and legal norms for dividing and sharing power. You know, the kind of place where everyone really really believes that if their candidate loses an election, they will not be dragged out into the street and shot by the other candidate's private militia. Afghanistan fails all those criteria. So, if you can find any examples of a country that fails as badly as Afghanistan does successfully avoiding the resource curse, I'd be real interested in studying it.

Re:U.S. Discovers Est. $1 Trillion of Minerals in Afghanistan by blasdel on Sunday June 13, 2010 @11:12PM (#1428744)
No realistic ones, no.

Do you really expect Afghanistan to turn into Canada or Australia, much less Norway?