News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by danieldk on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:52AM (#14232099)
For a little more, you can get a Windows laptop that runs Office, Adobe Suite and a full Ubuntu environment per Windows Subsystem for Linux.

(I am a Mac user, but Windows + WSL would probably be my first choice after a Mac. Especially if Microsoft would stop spying on their users.)

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by was_boring on Sunday April 30, 2017 @12:53PM (#14232463)
Yes, you can, but my question would be why would you want to? I don't know anyone personally who uses Office or Adobe for anything but work. Even then, the vast majority of professional use of Office is handled perfectly well by their online offering or Google's Docs.

Image manipulation and video editing are the only reasons I can think of someone would want something other than the hardware of a Chromebook. If Google opened up the Linux internals or made it dead simple to dual boot they would have a perfectly good development environment for web developers as well.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by xiaoma on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:49PM (#14232835)
>"Yes, you can, but my question would be why would you want to? I don't know anyone personally who uses Office or Adobe for anything but work."

Perhaps not people you know, but a lot of us enjoy drawing for fun. For me, at least, Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator and a Wacom tablet is the best way to go if I want to do anything digital. Corel Painter is pretty good, too. Linux isn't a good option for any of these things.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by danieldk on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:42PM (#14232776)
Even then, the vast majority of professional use of Office is handled perfectly well by their online offering or Google's Docs.

In a lot of professional environments it is not. First of all, many employers do not like uploading documents into a cloud.

Secondly, in an organization that uses Microsoft Office (which is probably still the vast majority of organizations), it is often not a replacement. A lot of Office files (especially with macros, etc.) do not work properly. Colleagues expect you return a document with updates with Office's 'track changes' functionality ("here, you have a Google Docs link with my changes to your Word document" will not fly).

I think Microsoft still has a large advantage in big organizations, due to their traditional dominance. And Office 365/Exchange has added collaboration features as well (that work with Office on Mac and Windows).

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by noir_lord on Monday May 01, 2017 @10:18AM (#14237601)
This is my experience of tooling up for a new job, I'm building a fast developer desktop which will be running Linux but we still had to sort out a license for Windows and Office (which will be virtualised) because while I can do my job completely on Linux the rest of the company is stuck emailing spreadsheets and stuff around.

I can't see that changing for a long time, I think people continue underestimate how hard it is for average adults in the workplace to jump around platforms, we are programmers (mostly) we are comfortable picking up new software and platforms as and when we need them but it's a classic case of "what applies to me applies to everyone".

That 50yo who is awesome at his job but 'useless' (by our metrics) with computers is still awesome at his job.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by sagarm on Monday May 01, 2017 @12:43PM (#14239111)
Emailing documents around seems like a recipe for errors, conflicts, and confusion around which version is the correct one. Does that really work well?
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by noir_lord on Monday May 01, 2017 @04:05PM (#14241013)
Work - sorta (with enough thrust a brick will fly) - well absolutely not but it's also prevalent in just about every office I've ever worked near.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by bspn on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:45PM (#14233168)
> I think Microsoft still has a large advantage in big organizations, due to their traditional dominance

I agree, and in fact would extend it to dominance in entire industries where compatibility is key. I can imagine if a lawyer returned a 100 page M&A agreement via Google Docs they would be laughed out of the room and told to try again. Or an accountant sharing a company's entire set of financial statements in Google Sheets rather than Excel - same result.

Cloud collaboration offerings are fantastic tools in my opinion, particularly for lightweight idea sharing. I know Google has grand plans for its productivity suite, but I think it will be an uphill battle to de-throne Microsoft anytime soon due to its widespread acceptance in a lot of industries as the "standard".

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by tdicola on Sunday April 30, 2017 @03:17PM (#14233323)
You also get worse battery life, constant updates at the most inopportune times (that you can't even control anymore), advertisements in your OS, and very sketchy security/privacy.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by sz4kerto on Sunday April 30, 2017 @04:46PM (#14233734)
Genuine question: how can the privacy of e.g. Windows (that sends back _some_ data, supposedly mostly telemetry to MS) than an environment that runs fully inside Google?
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by criddell on Sunday April 30, 2017 @06:11PM (#14234142)
It depends on who you trust more.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by UnoriginalGuy on Sunday April 30, 2017 @12:05PM (#14232171)
And 3 hours of battery life.

There are Windows Laptops with good 10+ hour battery life (e.g. Thinkpads). But they aren't a "little more" they're $1K+. Chromebooks are around $250-400.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by JohnTHaller on Sunday April 30, 2017 @12:38PM (#14232351)
You haven't looked at Windows laptops in a long time. You can get a 15" 1080p laptop with 8gb of ram and a 256gb SSD that gets 10+ hours of battery life for just north of $500 now.

Here's an example with all that plus a dedicated graphics card for $549: https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-E5-575G-53VG-15-6-Inch-Wi...

Or without the dedicated graphics for $470: https://m.newegg.com/products/N82E16834315779

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by tdicola on Sunday April 30, 2017 @03:21PM (#14233340)
As counterpoint, that same $500 will get you a Chromebook that's exceptionally thin and light (0.5" thick, 2.3 lbs), has a high resolution retina display (12", 2400x1600 pixels), 10+ hours battery life, and touchscreen with pen input and Android app compatibility: http://www.samsung.com/us/computing/chromebooks/12-14/xe513c... Compared to a giant 15" clunky, hot, loud, low resolution display Windows laptop it's a night and day difference.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by fauigerzigerk on Sunday April 30, 2017 @05:57PM (#14234078)
Yes, but with a drastically slower CPU, half the RAM and 1/8 of the disk space that Chromebook is not a usable developer machine without an additional server on which to run compilers, database systems, etc.

You're essentially buying a very high resolution ssh terminal + documentation viewer for your $500.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by tracker1 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @10:35PM (#14235235)
And you also still have to connect to remote servers to collaborate with other developers, run your SCM, CI/CD, servers, etc...

If you can do your editing locally, and connect to something more beefy when needed, whoopty do. It depends on what your needs are. Personally, a really nice screen and touchpad are huge features for me... at home/work a physical switch keyboard (buckling spring or cherry-mx browns)... who cares?

I want more, you want more, but there's no need to poopoo on someone else for not aligning with your own sensibilities.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by fauigerzigerk on Monday May 01, 2017 @03:46AM (#14236157)
Not including RAM, CPU and disk space in a cost comparison because your work doesn't require much RAM, CPU or disk space is fine. I don't poopoo anyone for not having these requirements in the first place.

But not including RAM, CPU and disk space because they're on a server somewhere makes absolutely no sense.

SCM and CI/CD are irrelevant for the comparison because they cost exactly the same whether you use a Chromebook, a Windows laptop or a Mac.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by tracker1 on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @06:39PM (#14251301)
My point was, I'd rather have the cheaper, more easily replaced device with me, and connect to something more powerful as needed.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by VLM on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:25PM (#14232661)
If its OK to play the "why not double the price" game then at $500 you're getting close to why not get a mac laptop for $1K?
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by danieldk on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:54PM (#14232858)
I am in the Mac camp (as mentioned upthread), but I think there is a serious risk here for Apple. That $550 Acer has the same amount of memory and an as large SSD as my new 2016 MacBook Pro that is Euro 1699 new. Plus a dedicated graphics card. Of course, the MacBook will have a better quality, but the price gaps between MacBooks and similarly spec'ed laptops are getting quite large.

Currently, a Mac or not is not a question for me. I prefer macOS with such a wide margin over Windows and Linux (for the desktop) that I am willing to pay the premium. Moreover, macOS has many applications that I like and are not available on other platforms (OmniGraffle, OmniFocus, Alfred, Tweetbot, Pastebot, etc.). However, after trying WSL I for the first time had the feeling that Windows could become an alternative to consider.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by JohnTHaller on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:29PM (#14233078)
It's a direct response to this incorrect claim: "There are Windows Laptops with good 10+ hour battery life (e.g. Thinkpads). But they aren't a "little more" they're $1K+"

They aren't $1k+. They're literally a little more than the $400 Chromebook.

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by jdietrich on Sunday April 30, 2017 @03:06PM (#14233269)
You can buy a perfectly usable Chromebook for $170.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019G7VPTC/

Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by JohnTHaller on Sunday April 30, 2017 @03:51PM (#14233479)
With a low resolution 720p screen and only 2GB of RAM and less than 10 hours of battery life. You can buy a similarly equipped Windows laptop for $199 or less, or with a more usable 4GB of RAM and 32GB of storage for 30 bucks more. Of course there are both lower end Chromebooks and Windows laptops, but they're really beside the point to what's being discussed.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by dwaxe on Sunday April 30, 2017 @04:46PM (#14233737)
Windows is much slower on such a low spec device than ChromeOS. And if you install anything on your Windows device, god help your loading times.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by voltagex_ on Sunday April 30, 2017 @08:32PM (#14234733)
Even low end devices are shipping with SSDs now. The last time Windows 10 was slow for me it was either because it was still on a 5400RPM drive (brand new $900AUD PC from a retailer...) or because Intel had tricked a whole lot of ODMs into thinking the Z series Atoms were desktop processors rather than for mid-range smartphones.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by JohnTHaller on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:01PM (#14235321)
In fairness, the low-end $200 laptops have emmc storage, which isn't what consumers think of as SSD. Yes it is solid state and faster than a hard drive. But it's not typical SSD performance like you get on the $400+ laptops.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by voltagex_ on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:20PM (#14235389)
True - and it's really hard to judge eMMC performance because of high variability between models/brands.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by JohnTHaller on Monday May 01, 2017 @12:17AM (#14235542)
eMMC 5.1 (introduced in Jan 2015) has read speeds up to 250 MB/s and write speeds up to 125 MB/s. They're much faster than the earlier eMMC chips, as well as laptop hard drives. Sadly, the early slow chips kind of gave them a bad reputation. They're perfectly workable now for a low-end machine.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by liareye on Sunday April 30, 2017 @01:47PM (#14232816)
because he wants to be productive, not "work" on twitter and facebook all day.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by pjmlp on Sunday April 30, 2017 @12:21PM (#14232261)
My netbook Eee PC manages 5h.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by jcastro on Sunday April 30, 2017 @12:40PM (#14232365)
Depends on the use case, chromebook for battery life and speed of updates is nice.
Re:Chromebooks winning in schools, Windows and Apple fight back by JCharante on Monday May 01, 2017 @06:47PM (#14242451)
> a full Ubuntu environment per Windows Subsystem for Linux

The Windows Subsystem for Linux was so much slower than just running Ubuntu the last time I tries, the only reason I have for booting into windows is to update the skill queues for my eve characters once every few months.