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Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by danso on Saturday April 29, 2017 @03:49PM (#14228358)
> “I have often been disappointed,” he writes of other facial data sets. “The datasets tend to be extremely strict in their structure, and are usually too small. Tinder gives you access to thousands of people within miles of you. Why not leverage Tinder to build a better, larger facial dataset?”

This guy sounds like a caricature of the exact kind of socially unaware techie who blithely implements dystopian-powering software, because having data and writing code is all that matters apparently. Privacy law admittedly isn't the simplest concept but you have to wonder how blissfully solipsistic someone has to be to write a simple script that scrapes proprietary data without asking himself, "this is so easy, I wonder why no one else has had this idea?"

And then he released the data under CC0, just to add insult to injury by making CC look unethical.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by SkyMarshal on Saturday April 29, 2017 @03:56PM (#14228407)
CC aside (which I'm not sure he has the right to release Tinder's data under any arbitrary license of his choosing, CC or otherwise), I'm actually ok with security and privacy vulnerabilities being openly exposed in this way. Some random hacker in his garage figures out how to do it and just does, and makes it completely public. The general public is so complacent about this stuff, it feels like events like this, or the fappening, motivate them far more than most advocacy does, while doing far less harm than a govt agency using it in secret could.
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by joshumax on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:08PM (#14228755)
Now I feel bad for doing this exact thing with Tinder to create a data-set for determining age based on facial features...

At least I didn't publicize it after and removed it when I was done

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by toomuchtodo on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:37PM (#14228617)
It's all fun and games until you violate the CFAA.

Laws you may not like are still there to be enforced.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by JumpCrisscross on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:47PM (#14228654)
It's disturbing that Colliani's LinkedIn lists him as a "Cybersecurity Solutions Architect" at PG&E. That's a lot of personal information for someone so clueless.
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by devrandomguy on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:37PM (#14228905)
Perhaps this whole thing was just a very subtle PSA, designed to raise awareness of the dangers of using your real face as an avatar? If so, it seems to be effective, in this format.
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by minimaxir on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:35PM (#14228893)
See also: the OKCupid data incident, where a user data was scrape and released non-anonymized and OKCupid was not happy about it: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/70000-okcupid-use...
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by _pmf_ on Saturday April 29, 2017 @03:56PM (#14228409)
> This guy sounds like a caricature of the exact kind of socially unaware techie who blithely implements dystopian-powering software, because having data and writing code is all that matters apparently.

Zuck?

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by danso on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:07PM (#14228468)
Worth pointing out that Zuckerberg's obliviousness was very much like the guy featured in the OP, and he was punished for FaceMash and apologized for it [0].

He then created TheFacebook as an alternative to Harvard's online facebook, which was purportedly in development. The official facebook was taking longer because of worries about scraping of user information [1]:

> Davis said that the principle complication with the creation of an official facebook was figuring out how to design an interface so that directory information could not easily be compiled without authorization.

That said, Zuckerberg's TheFacebook got around that because students apparently were happy to upload their information to his service. And the rest is history.

[0] http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/4/hot-or-not-websi...

[1] http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2004/2/9/hundreds-register...

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by thr0waway1239 on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:06PM (#14228463)
No. He is a billionaire, which obviously means he is a visionary. These characterizations only apply to mere mortals and other dumb fucks such as those who contribute to Facebooks' MAU numbers.
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by necessity on Saturday April 29, 2017 @03:58PM (#14228420)
When I upload my photos to Tinder or Facebook I assume they are stored forever and may be used for any purpose by anyone. Any person who assumes otherwise is a fool.
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by danso on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:10PM (#14228482)
You would be wrong. Uploading your photo to a commercial service that is publicly accessible does not allow someone or anyone else to use your photo for other commercial purposes, such as in an advertisement, without a model release [0].

The rules governing consent and data of human subjects are even more stringent in academia, hence the existence of institutional review boards.

[0] http://adland.tv/content/virgin-uses-cc-licenced-flickr-phot...

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by ghaff on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:31PM (#14228874)
I read the parent as saying that they assumed photos on a service could/would be used for who knows what purpose, not that it's the fair or legal thing to happen. That seems a reasonable assumption to start with and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen.
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by devrandomguy on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:15PM (#14228503)
Does this apply internationally? Also, how would you know if your photo is being used commercially? What if the EULA of every major social network and photo sharing service, grants that service ownership and commercial usage of all of the content that you create with them?
Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by danso on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:31PM (#14228590)
International laws are all different, but American laws are generally among the most permissive. For example, newspapers don't have to get consent forms for everyone who happens to appear in a photo of a public venue. I don't think Google was legally obligated to blur faces in its Street View coverage of America, but it was likely the extremely wise thing to do (nothing stopping government from passing new laws) [0]. But documentaries do -- I'm honestly not sure if that is legally the case or if it's done out of precaution, obviously the majority of TV news and newspaper photos don't blur random people's faces. And for things like the "Ali G Show" [1], you can bet all of those people who were unblurred had signed a release before entering that bar.

In contrast, I know that in the EU, architects have copyright on their work, which means you can't photograph the Eiffel Tower at night and share the photo, legally, without consent [2]

As to how you know if your photo is being used commercially...obviously there isn't a push-notification service (yet) that sends an alert to your inbox. You would just have to notice the commercial usage, as what happened when the teenager who was captured in a CC-licensed photo on Flickr found herself in a Virgin Mobile campaign

[0] https://www.cnet.com/news/google-begins-blurring-faces-in-st... (warning, autoplay video)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

http://www.thefrisky.com/2009-07-15/how-sacha-baron-cohen-ke...

[2] http://www.politico.eu/article/banned-taking-pictures-of-the...

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by ghaff on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:28PM (#14228857)
>You would just have to notice the commercial usage, as what happened when the teenager who was captured in a CC-licensed photo on Flickr found herself in a Virgin Mobile campaign

The issue in that case was (IANAL) nothing to do with the CC licensing but with the fact that the photo was used for a commercial (i.e. marketing/advertising) purpose. Those require a model release form, hence the requirement by microstock sites for model releases.

Virgin Mobile messed up in that they used a photo for a marketing campaign that didn't have a model release form either directly or through an agency that had vetted it.

Editorial use in the US at least doesn't require this even though it's commercial use in the sense that a for-profit entity is using the photo to illustrate a story.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by danso on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:45PM (#14228941)
I didn't mean to imply that the CC licensing was at fault, though IIRC the girl and her family did originally include the CC Corporation as a defendant [0] before dropping them from the suit. I was merely stating the fact that just because the photographer has made their photo freely available under CC does not mean the subject has given consent for their image to be commercially used. Virgin Mobile screwed up into thinking that's what CC meant.

[0] http://fairuse.stanford.edu/case/chang-v-virgin-mobile-creat...

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by ghaff on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:52PM (#14228978)
Absolutely right. I actually wrote about this at the time. [1] That CC has commercial/non-commercial variants probably add further to the confusion even if they didn't play into this case. As does the fact that the colloquial meaning of commercial is different from the meaning of commercial that's relevant to publicity rights.

[1] https://www.cnet.com/uk/news/more-commercial-creative-common... (Video autoplay, grr.)

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by devrandomguy on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:41PM (#14228632)
I guess, I just have very little faith in my ability to get personal justice versus a foreign corporation. The value of the dataset, when applied to an unethical but lucrative purpose, could easily outgrow the cost of getting caught. Especially if the operation is well isolated from the parent company.

It is not the possibility that I might appear in an ad that concerns me, but rather, that the set of photos that contain me in them, could be used correlate way more information than I would ever consent to releasing voluntarily. I would not even notice that happening.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by toomuchtodo on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:25PM (#14228560)
> What if the EULA of every major social network and photo sharing service, grants that service ownership and commercial usage of all of the content that you create with them?

Courts would consider it an overreach, and that specific clause would be nullified.

You can't take everything from another party while offering no compensation and expect a court to uphold it.

EDIT: Disclaimer: Not a lawyer. Not your lawyer.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by devrandomguy on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:59PM (#14228706)
I know you didn't intend that as legal advice, but I sure hope that you are correct nonetheless. From the article:

> It’s also worth noting that in agreeing to the company’s T&Cs Tinder users grant it a “worldwide, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, right and license to host, store, use, copy, display, reproduce, adapt, edit, publish, modify and distribute” their content — though it’s less clear whether that would apply in this case where a third-party developer is scraping Tinder data and releasing it under a public domain license.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by toomuchtodo on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:06PM (#14228748)
IANAL, but my understanding of contract law is that consideration is required:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration

https://nationalparalegal.edu/public_documents/courseware_as...

"The idea of consideration is vital to contract law because, in order for a contract to be enforceable, there must be “mutuality of obligation.” In other words, in order for a contract to be valid, both parties to the contract must be required to perform under the contract. Consideration, which represents the commitment that the parties to the contract make to each other, is at the heart of the “mutuality of obligation” rule and, therefore, without consideration, a contract will not be enforceable."

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by devrandomguy on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:14PM (#14228498)
This is absolutely correct. Companies are bought and sold along with their data, and the new owners are not necessarily bound by the agreements or motives of their predecessor. Us users generally have no say in the matter. EULA's that appear to promise a bit of privacy, are usually riddled with loopholes.

Identity is a liability, and a favor that we offer to our peers in order to simplify communication. It does not benefit the person being identified, so much. If I cannot have the identities of the people and projects who consume my data, then I will operate as a fresh, expendable identity.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by facerecognizer on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:13PM (#14228492)
He is just an amateur, I find it funny that its news since he collected only 40K pictures, any one with couple of hundred dollars and smarts can probably get few million pictures easily using pool of EC2 spot instances with disposable IP addresses.

Not to mention there are several million face dataset available easily. http://megaface.cs.washington.edu

Also there is really no point in attacking him, other than for typical clickbait outrage.

Finally how is this worse than those name and shame Tinder/OKCupid/Jezebel blog posts, or the horrible actions of the Wikileaks/Intercept crooks.

Re:Scraping Tinder selfies to make a dataset for AI experiments by danso on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:20PM (#14228529)
Megaface is not "available easily". You have to email the team and ask for permission to get access credentials: http://megaface.cs.washington.edu/participate/challenge2.htm...

Since so few details about terms of use on the dataset are available, it's reasonable to assume the access control is put up in place for reasons other than bandwidth concerns.