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Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by RcouF1uZ4gsC on Saturday April 29, 2017 @02:04PM (#14227801)
Just how far are you willing to go with this? If people having opinion X, are banned on social media and no private registrar will register their website, no private search engine will index their website, no private employer will hire them, no private bank will do business with them or lend them money, no conference will invite them even for unrelated talks, no open source project will accept their contribution, no private media company will run their advertisements, and no private college will allow them on campus or admit them, are you OK with this situation? After all, they can still write to the government and go to town halls and spout their opinion.

This scenario is not that far-fetched because: 1) There has been more consolidation into fewer large companies​, with less competition 2) Many companies share board members with similar opinions and sympathies and have leadership with similar sympathies. 3) Because of social media, it is easy to get a large group of people to put coordinated pressure on a company. 4) This scenario would just be an extreme example of the "no platform" movement which we already have, and which has already successfully pressured individual companies to dissociate with people or opinions.

It is respect for the principle of free speech in the general population that protects us from this scenario. If you are OK with this scenario for some opinions, be aware that throughout history, what is an unpopular opinion has changed, sometimes relatively rapidly.

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by anigbrowl on Saturday April 29, 2017 @04:09PM (#14228478)
If people having opinion X, are banned on social media

I'm not in favor of people being banned, but of ideas being flagged - not censored. For example, I don't want to do any kind of business with anyone who is advocating policies that I have a strict moral disagreement with. The nature of that moral disagreement could vary. Popular sentiment should be employed not to determine whether a given piece of media is acceptable or not, but to categorize it; and the strength of those categorial associations can then in turn inform the decisions of advertises, researchers, and so on.

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by pm90 on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:27PM (#14228850)
Just to act as a devil's advocate: it seems like only a little better change from banning something to branding it with a tag such as "racist" or "sexist" or any of the reasons why we ban things currently. I do agree that it makes it much easier to research things, since then you do continue to have access to the primary source of truth rather than screenshots from some shady websites. The problem seems to be that some things are just too vile to leave on the public internet... Personally, I'm not too sure how to deal with this. e.g. religious rhetoric can frequently be incredibly incendiary and motivate a large group of people to violence.
Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by anigbrowl on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:10PM (#14232965)
It's a lot better change because people can make up their own minds. It's unrealistic to expect everything to be nice all the time, there ar vile things in the world and people who promote vile ideas, and the most effective response to that is to tag them as such. Oh sure, some whiners will complain about being tagged as nazis or whatever, but too bad, if lots of people think their statements align perfectly with the nazis well then the marketplace of ideas has spoken. Tagging content is a practical idea because advertisers and the like can then choose to avoid content associated with tags that they don't want to associate their brands with.

the tagging is a function of the popular will rather than the output of an algorithm or assignment by committee, and the the tags are associable with discrete media rather than individuals.

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by inetknght on Saturday April 29, 2017 @05:57PM (#14228996)
Are they?

What things are too vile, then?

I think those things that are "too vile" are better tracked than outright banned.

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by anigbrowl on Sunday April 30, 2017 @03:28PM (#14233375)
Well child porn serves as a good example. Tagging it would be effective in monitoring its diffusion, but it's not a neutral thing or a victimless crime like drug consumption; any kind of photographic child porn includes a child whose identity and sexual abuse are the subject matter of the material, and every time it is collected or viewed the rights of that person are violated anew, even if they have since reached adulthood and are thus of no further direct interest to child abusers.

I'm not sure exactly what technical measures should be employed in relation to such cases - perhaps machine-curated honeypots whose attempt to access is itself a crime.

CP raises extremely tricky moral questions. I mentioned photographic examples above because they include real people. But there's a tricky question of what happens in relation to creative works not based on reality such as drawings. It's easy to conceive of art that that would automatically be deemed illegal or at least prurient if it were photographic, but since art can be created from imagination without any real person needing to serve as a subject it's very difficult to figure out an appropriate response.

We could say that the simple lack of actual human victimization should OK the production of such content, but form a practical point of view it's possible to create hyperrealistic art works that are almost indistinguishable from a photograph, and computers are making it easier and easier to produce renderings that approach photographic quality, a trend which will only continue because of the huge economic incentives to instantiate virtual puppets rather than pay people to work. I'm sure this has been employed to produce crude CP already (based on its use in non-contraband porn). It's difficult to make an argument for expressive freedom when the only expression involved in its creation is that of the desire for activity that's illegal, but on the other hand nobody would think of arresting someone for a painting that depicted one person stabbing another notwithstanding the possibility of the inspiring idea being illegal.

This issue matters since it's a demonstration of art's power to subvert norms by realizing the creation of an image depicting a reality where desirous activities occur, but with the added complexity of leveraging mechanical assistance to produce something that's indistinguishable from a recording of real activity, at least to the casual or untrained observer.

(by the way, anyone thinking of dismissing these concerns with a 'think of the children' cliche - don't bother. I know numerous people who were abused and exploited in child pornography. It's not a rhetorical argument when it is something that happens to real people and which continues to impact their adult lives, and if you attempt to dismiss it on rhetorical grounds you are in effect asserting that the bad experiences of some people don't matter compared to some hypothetical liberty interest in consuming depictions of their exploitation.)

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by flyingfences on Monday May 01, 2017 @09:21AM (#14237246)
> it's not a neutral thing or a victimless crime like drug consumption

Then we ban it. We're not banning the speech; we're banning the child abuse. Take a look (figuratively, not necessarily literally) at loli/shota hentai - that's legal (at least here in the USA) because real people are not being harmed. Actual CP with actual children is banned because real people are being harmed. It's not suppression of free speech; it's protection against abuse.

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by nunobrito on Sunday April 30, 2017 @03:32AM (#14230552)
They are doing this to Scott Adams, Trump, Snowden and others on twitter. I'm following their accounts and seldom times see any updates from them, the updates are filtered (shadowbanned).

Scott Adams himself mentions the same: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/159566176596/am-i-shadowbanned-...

If you tag people with whom you have a strict moral disagreement to avoid doing business with them, this is actually what national socialists did back in the 1930s with their own Jewish community. It is a slippery rope.

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by anigbrowl on Sunday April 30, 2017 @02:05PM (#14232928)
It's a slippery slope, not a slippery rope, and you also failed to read my post correctly. I did not say anything about tagging people - in fact I specifically said I was against that - but about tagging content or specific ideas.

It is extremely dishonest of you to attempt to alter the terms of my argument like this and just goes to show how weak your own position is.

Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by pishpash on Saturday April 29, 2017 @02:27PM (#14227932)
The solution to that is simple. Apply free speech rules to entities, even private ones, that have grown to have government-like powers in the lives of people. They serve the same function as government.
Re:Wikipedia blocked in Turkey by inimino on Saturday April 29, 2017 @02:55PM (#14228112)
If you think that solution is simple, keep thinking about it.