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Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by 0x445442 on Friday April 28, 2017 @09:57AM (#14219379)
> Do you want to sit around waiting to be told what to do or engineer your own path?

It can be very difficult if not impossible to engineer your own path in most environments these days. These days most devs are simply trading time for money. If the backlog board is empty, they're on retainer waiting for it to fill up.

Because of the eternal effort of the enterprise to commoditize developers they're given no decision making power. So even though they continually identify work that could be done to improve product or process, they know it's a crap shoot to follow through on such work as it's more than likely to be rejected for one subjective reason or another.

Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by gdulli on Friday April 28, 2017 @10:24AM (#14219589)
That's not been my experience over a 20-year career. On a given day I might not have that freedom, and I've had ideas get shot down. But over the long run it's always been true that if I have extra time I can use it to my advantage one way or another. This feels like a pretty universal rule about work. If I worked at Chipotle I'm sure I could still find a way to distinguish myself over my co-workers.
Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by Chris2048 on Friday April 28, 2017 @10:38AM (#14219693)
If you take the advantage you gained from being recognized, vs the time spent towards that effort (including things shot down), is it worth it?

The recognition must have a high return to make up for all the time wasted on rejected initiatives.

Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by gdulli on Friday April 28, 2017 @12:04PM (#14220529)
Are you asking if tens of thousands of dollars in salary, and increased equity, and promotion to roles of greater responsibility, and increased job security, and recognition, and the freedom to design my own role are worth a lot to me? Yes, they are.
Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by gs_throwaway on Friday April 28, 2017 @01:39PM (#14221431)
You claim to have 20 years of experience, yet this reeks of "Just world" naivete.

Are you guaranteed those things if you work better than the rest? No, external factors can nullify all your dedicated work.

What would you do if all you had to show for your effort was that employee of the month picture on the wall?

Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by Chris2048 on Friday April 28, 2017 @05:39PM (#14223280)
First of all, "greater responsibility" is not an advantage, it is a liability you accept in return for other advantages.

If the delta is worth "tens of thousands of dollars in salary", consider what your free time spent on other things is worth. It might not be.

But "freedom to design my own role"? Where do you get this?

Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by Bartweiss on Friday April 28, 2017 @07:37PM (#14224062)
> First of all, "greater responsibility" is not an advantage, it is a liability you accept in return for other advantages.

This is an interesting point. We tend to conflate "greater control" with "greater responsibility", but we shouldn't. The first is a benefit, the second is a risk. They often go together, but having had a job with lots of responsibility and no control, they certainly don't have to.

Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by bcbrown on Friday April 28, 2017 @01:59PM (#14221626)
The personal fulfilment from contributing to a constantly-improving work environment is what makes it worth it.
Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by Chris2048 on Friday April 28, 2017 @05:40PM (#14223285)
This seem to ignore something in my original comment: What about the wasted effort?
Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by bcbrown on Friday April 28, 2017 @06:15PM (#14223585)
What wasted effort? Sure, not all of my initiatives gain traction, but to expect otherwise would be unrealistic. Perhaps I've just been lucky to work at companies that are receptive to personal initiative, improvements and ideas.

Regardless, I would much prefer to have a working environment where I'm engaged and involved and making an impact than where I'm only grudgingly doing just enough to get by, even if it doesn't lead to recognition and rewards. Although, in my experience, it does.

Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by mateo411 on Friday April 28, 2017 @10:14AM (#14219519)
In a healthy organization the engineer can suggest improvements to Product and help them prioritize the improvements.
Re:Should I fire an engineer for working on his side project... by 0x445442 on Friday April 28, 2017 @05:33PM (#14223238)
Agreed, and I've worked in such environments. However, its my thesis most "dark matter" engineers in "the enterprise" are in an environment I originally described. And that's not accounting for Government organizations which I imagine are even worse.