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Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by dinedal on Monday April 24, 2017 @07:40PM (#14189476)
How does anyone, when asked to build such a program, not raise an objection, or say something?

The ethical compromise made on behalf of all involved is startling, if this is true.

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by zenlikethat on Monday April 24, 2017 @10:04PM (#14190181)
Who says no one raised an objection or said something?

Even on mundane decisions unrelated to ethics, I've seen engineers object to things and get overruled. If you continue digging in your heels, the leadership will simply fire you or move you to another team and get someone else to do it.

If you did have strong ethical objections, it's likely you just left the company. Why stay at something where no one else shares your ethics? So the moral vacuum is somewhat self-reinforcing.

Besides all that, it's a lot easier to sit in a place of judgment when you weren't involved than, say, in a position where you needed the job to put food on the table for your family.

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by vkou on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:01PM (#14189620)
I just send the rockets up, where they come down is not my department.

Why do people build weapons? Why do people pay taxes, that are used to fund immoral actions? Why do people provide services to immoral actors? Typically, the answer is money.

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by saghm on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:21PM (#14189724)
> Why do people pay taxes, that are used to fund immoral actions? ... Typically, the answer is money.

That seems like a stretch; people pay their taxes because they don't want to go to prison, not because of money. If anything, money would be an incentive not to pay your taxes, so it seems obvious that there's something stronger than money at play there.

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by pikzen on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @03:05AM (#14191375)
Or, in not-libertarian-land, people pay taxes because they enjoy having access to public services such as police, fire departments, working roads, water, etc.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by metaphorm on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @10:52AM (#14194034)
the two positions aren't even a little contradictory. people pay taxes BOTH because they want to comply with the law (avoid prosecution) and because they value public services (some of them anyway).

similarly, there is nuance in each position. self-preservation motivates avoidance of prosecution, but it doesn't prevent individuals and companies from seeking the most effective legal means to avoid taxes, which sometimes is in a grey area w.r.t law and ethics. as well we should consider that while some public services are considered good and desirable, many of them aren't, and which is good and which is not is a judgment that varies heavily between individuals.

this isn't libertarian-land "taxes are theft" stuff. this is the basic social contract that everyone, libertarians and their opponents, all abide by.

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by saghm on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @12:19PM (#14194986)
Oh, don't get me wrong, I certainly feel a strong sense of civic duty to pay taxes, and I completely understand the benefit that comes from them. But from conversations with other people, I get the feeling that a large number of people would not pay taxes if they knew they could get away with this. Of course, now that I verbalize this, I'm realizing this could just be a sampling bias, as people who aren't upset about paying taxes are probably less likely to start a conversation about them.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by idoh on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:18PM (#14189706)
On the tax side, we neither have control over whether to pay taxes nor how it is spent, so that's not a reasonable example.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by vkou on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:29PM (#14189766)
You could always move to a country which does not spend your money on behavior you object to.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by toomuchtodo on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:48PM (#14189873)
Or take advantage of tax deductions and credits in your country so as to reduce or even eliminate your tax liability:

US-specific:

* EV credit: $7500

* Solar panels on your roof: 30% federal tax credit (some states have incentives as well)

* Mortgage interest/insurance

* Educational expenses

* Charity contributions

* Tax loss harvesting of non-tax advantaged investment accounts

Some of the above require itemizing.

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by bdcravens on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:44PM (#14189845)
Are saying stakeholders aren't communicating the use case to the developers implementing these solutions?
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by cmahler7 on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:05PM (#14189637)
silicon valley has filled up with the types of money chasing individuals who would have once become investment bankers on wall street and brought similar morals with them
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by nulagrithom on Monday April 24, 2017 @10:56PM (#14190396)
Today I was asked for the 10th damn time to build something that could expose a small amount of HIPAA data. The last 9 times I explained how building this feature would, at the least, require a security audit, but nobody understood why I was making such a big deal.

Today, I almost said "Fuck it, if you want to make a blatantly negligent mistake then just reply to this email detailing once more how stupid this is and I'll just build it." If I get asked once more, I still might.

Does that make me an unethical money chasing individual? I dunno, maybe. And maybe I'm wrong and it's not a big deal -- I honestly don't know if that feature is a HIPAA violation or not. But most of all, I just want to keep my job and keep feeding my family.

I wouldn't be too quick to condemn the people that wrote this for Uber.

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by lucasmullens on Monday April 24, 2017 @11:48PM (#14190609)
If you're a software engineer at Uber you can more than afford to feed your family, and you probably have comparable opportunities elsewhere. IMO people making $250k+ a year lose the "I just need to put food on the table" excuse used to justify their immoral job.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by SamReidHughes on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @02:46AM (#14191297)
What boggles my mind is the notion that a potential HIPAA violation is some grand immorality. It's just information about somebody. It's nice to keep secret, but no great loss to society if it was made public.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by fidget on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @04:38AM (#14191752)
Please let me know where you work, so I can avoid any product potentially produced by you.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by Crito on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @04:54AM (#14191823)
Wow, you're a real piece of work.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by SamReidHughes on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @03:59PM (#14197416)
If you can explain why it's so bad somebody's medical info gets leaked out, I'm all ears. As far as I can tell HIPAA makes medicine more expensive. That's bad!

What if you could opt in to healthcare that was 20% cheaper, but was only subject to contractual promises of medical privacy, not the HIPAA. Would you take the deal?

Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by Crito on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @07:43PM (#14199283)
Do society a favor and remove yourself from the industry.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by yawaworht12 on Wednesday April 26, 2017 @08:12AM (#14202300)
Because he suggested that people be allowed to choose between privacy and cost? For some people, 20% might be a significant cost and they don't care about medical details leaking.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by JustSomeNobody on Monday April 24, 2017 @09:37PM (#14190088)
Just because you write code, doesn't make you any more morally sound than the person who asks you to write code.
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by rglover on Monday April 24, 2017 @07:51PM (#14189562)
It starts with "M" and ends with "oney."
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by pthreads on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:36PM (#14189804)
More Money!!!!
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by mvindahl on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @08:18AM (#14192731)
Milk & honey
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by 5ilv3r on Monday April 24, 2017 @07:57PM (#14189608)
Monotony! EDIT: Damn, e
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by sanjoy_das on Monday April 24, 2017 @11:25PM (#14190515)
I can never understand this attitude. Programmers are people -- why is it surprising that some of them are ethically flexible?
Re:Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft ... by SamReidHughes on Monday April 24, 2017 @08:01PM (#14189619)
Well I'd want to know, what is your basis for calling it an ethical compromise?