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Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by mc32 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @12:09AM (#14145374)
Recently I heard senator Warren speak of what she essentially described as the selling out of the middle class starting with Reagan and with the tacit support of democrats.

When you see the effects of the maturation of an economy plus globalization, it's apparent it's not as simple as saying that beginning in the '80s the establishment sold out the middle class in favor of the elite. There is more at play. Japan has been suffering from the same issues, but somewhat differently due to some structural rigidity.

Japan is, as they say, complicated. Work culture (at the extreme death from over work, but commonly getting home very late due to social obligations at work), gender roles (still difficult for women to achieve success on par with men), cost of living, hiring practices (must be hired before graduation) hyperactive brand awareness (the new cool thing minted by thirteen year olds must be had by virtually 50% of the pop) and to some degree idealization of a bohemian way of life and repudiation of their previous generations' attitudes toward work. All these things come together and result in a ~30year intractable malaise.

If they could just get themselves to address the biggest issue, make it easier for women to work and succeed (opportunities, responsibilities, salaries, time off for family and bigly social expectations) they just might have a chance at improving things, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by Banthum on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:15AM (#14145600)
Your comment made sense up until the last paragraph. I honestly see no connection between giving things to women and solving any of the problems we're discussing here. In fact it could make things worse by further saturating the job market, increasing living costs (e.g. restaurants replace home-cooked meals), and so on.

Japan's biggest issue is simple demographics and capital saturation, not conservative views on women in the workplace. In the past, when the economy was roaring, their views on women were even more conservative than now, and it clear didn't hold them back at that time.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by mc32 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:21AM (#14145627)
You can't have an apathetic population get involved (in society) when they have lots to lose but little to gain. Partners coming home at 11pm and leaving at 5am isn't a "partner". Why would any one want to raise a family and ensure the continuation of the society when you're in that situation.

Basically what they did and continue to do is forgo roughly half their potential workforce and half their overall potential because they could not bother to make things even semi-attractive for women to stay employed beyond 30.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by solidsnack9000 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @12:44AM (#14145483)
Given the way that problems in Japan have effected the population -- many men as well as women are out of work; the phenomenon of hikkikomori affects predominately men; death by overwork affects men as well as women -- why do you think the "biggest issue" is making it "easier for women to work and succeed"?
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by mc32 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @12:48AM (#14145492)
At this point, things seem intractable --unless the gov can spur or induce people to reproduce.

More women in the workforce means more workers, more money in the economy, more viability for families, more progress, more development, more real demand for goods and services etc.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by solidsnack9000 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:41AM (#14145705)
> More women in the workforce means more workers, more money in the economy, more viability for families, more progress, more development, more real demand for goods and services etc.

You aren't really making an effort to demonstrate this, or your earlier point that the "biggest issue" is making it "easier for women to work and succeed".

In Japan right now, it's not just that women are underemployed -- men are underemployed, as well. "Death by overwork" affects women as well as men. This would seem to speak to an overwhelming level of power on the part of employers, not a need for more workers.

I am really puzzled by the idea that the core problem in Japan has anything to do with the relative involvement of women in the work force.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by slv77 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:13AM (#14145596)
Senator Warren's boom the Two Income Trap says that in the US the second income went mostly into higher land prices, childcare and transportation. The net benefit accrued mostly to the old (more workers per retiree), the government (more work now taxable) and the rich (who held assets that rose in price).

The problem isn't that there isn't enough income it the distribution of the income.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by fjdlwlv on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:47AM (#14145730)
Interesting that she wrote a book and then ignored her findings when planning her own life.
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by slv77 on Thursday April 20, 2017 @02:47PM (#14159586)
That is addressed in her book...

Senator Warren is obviously an advocate for women having the opportunity to work and have a career while the book analyzes the system wide implications of those individual choices. She makes a convincing case that the results have been for parents to assume more financial risk to raise children and that the risk is higher for single income families and higher still for single income/single parent families.

Some points that really crystallized for me from her book her analysis of household spending for a single income household in the 1970's compared to a more recent dual income household. Once you take out the higher mortgage payment (to get access to good schools), childcare (to support the second income), medical care and transportation (to support the second income) the household in the 1970's had more disposable income at the end of the month than the two income modern family even though the modern family has a much higher household income.

She primarily advocates for tax and policy changes to reduce the system wide impacts on families with children.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by solidsnack9000 on Thursday April 20, 2017 @09:22AM (#14156357)
Someone might write about the declining returns available to education but still go on to a great career with a CS PhD. We can't apply secular trends directly to our own lives. Elizabeth Warren has a career that is exceptional in many ways.
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by douche on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:54AM (#14145761)
Senator Warren fulfills the primary qualification for being an elected official: being able to lie out of both sides of her mouth at the same time.
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by solidsnack9000 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @02:16AM (#14145855)
What a contribution to the dialogue, man.
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by kesselvon on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @11:05AM (#14148212)
Senator Warren is now the new boogieman female politician to be derided after HRC made her exit
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by williamgb on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @02:16PM (#14150252)
How so?
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by mc32 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:28AM (#14145655)
I think her mistake is in attribution. Things are more expensive where people have more income (but that's not bad -it allows for power equilibrium). That's not to say that taxation could have affected this in some way, but there were and are many other things at play not the least the dive into globalization and foreign labor competition in the low skills sector.
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by slv77 on Friday April 21, 2017 @08:41AM (#14164995)
In the book I think she makes a pretty strong case that the wide disparity between public schools in the US is a major driver of real estate costs.

A single income family that is outbid for access to good schools through real estate prices may send a spouse to work to get access. The single income family that is now excluded may do the same. Eventually you reach a tipping point where every family is expending maximum income to fit into districts with good schools.

One thing I believe the book missed is that having two income families also has the impact of degrading the very same school districts as the book ignores the contributions of the non-working parent. Parents who are dedicated full time to raising children volunteer at school, have more well adjusted children and their social networks stabilize neighborhoods. The same forces that move families to send a spouse to work are the same that degrade the very schools that they want access to.

The result I believe is a game of survivor where couples with children bid for smaller and smaller islands of the middle class and more couples opt out of having children.

How schools are funded is obviously an issue in the US but also explicit tax transfers from single income families to dual income families through things like childcare credits and mortgage deductions also contribute to the demise of the single income family.

Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by stuartaxelowen on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @12:15AM (#14145394)
To be fair, it's difficult for women to achieve the same station as men even in most forward thinking countries. Japan is far behind this for a variety of reasons, and I think the parent comment undersells how much of a problem this is for Japanese women.
Re:Some 4.5M Japanese aged between 35 and 54 are living with... by mc32 on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @12:21AM (#14145422)
Understood --however, attitudes in Japan towards women in the workforce are, unevenly, about 60+ years behind other mature economies.