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Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by djsumdog on Monday April 10, 2017 @01:46PM (#14080840)
You should read "Debt the First 5,000 Years". It's an amazing book, and one of the things the author talks about is how debt requires violence.

You can't put a man into debt unless you have the capacity for violence to enforce it. He doesn't pay you back, you break his legs, or take his sons and daughters as slaves. Today we have reduced the violence. Now companies ruin credit, get a Sheriff to evict someone from a house foreclosure, harass you with phone calls .. it's a less violence but it's still a form of it.

This violence is also the origin of money (and debt). A conqueror takes a country. That leader needs to pay his army (they are expensive). So you take the area you took and they can only pay taxes with coins; your coins specifically. Only soldiers have those coins, so you leave a garrison that gets paid from the debt you put the people in.

Before the US destroyed Libya, it had the highest GDP in Africa and no debt to the WMF. Today, the "rebels" the US imported are now in debt to the WMF and the people no longer have free electricity or education.

Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by JumpCrisscross on Monday April 10, 2017 @01:57PM (#14080950)
> debt requires violence

Any kind of property requires violence to exist. If I say "this is my land" and you disagree, the only way I can enforce my claim is through violence. Debt is just a specific case of a general phenomenon. (This applies to communal property, too.)

> Before the US destroyed Libya, it had the highest GDP in Africa

Do you have a source for this? I see Libya's GDP circa 2005 at $41 billion (in 2005 U.S. dollars) [1]. South Africa's 2005 GDP was $260 billion in current U.S. dollars [2] (bit over $200 billion in 2005 U.S. dollars [3]).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Libya

[2] http://data.worldbank.org/country/south-africa

[3] http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by djsumdog on Monday April 10, 2017 @02:29PM (#14081231)
Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by JumpCrisscross on Monday April 10, 2017 @02:57PM (#14081466)
You are correct in Libya having the highest African GDP per capita before 2011 [1]. Granted, Libya's economy is more similar to its oil-producing peers in the Middle East and North Africa.

The debt motive for the invasion makes little sense. American banks made more money on Ghadaffi's Libya [2].

[1] http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/business/dealbook/libyan-...

Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by njitram on Monday April 10, 2017 @02:39PM (#14081310)
As context, that website is said to be a proponent of conspiracy theories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky#Centre_for...)
Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by sheepdestroyer on Monday April 10, 2017 @02:17PM (#14081131)
Property is theft already if you believe Proudhon.
Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by AnimalMuppet on Monday April 10, 2017 @02:28PM (#14081222)
And why should I believe Proudhon?
Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by muro on Monday April 10, 2017 @02:15PM (#14081115)
Maybe per person
Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by maxmcorp on Tuesday April 11, 2017 @07:55AM (#14086819)
But then debt and better money management and institutes has created the most peaceful and less violent societies in the world.

In "original" societies it is not abnormal for 50% of males to die violent deads. In our societies it is less than 2% as far as i remember. Including two world wars!

So the violence of debt is not that relevant in the big picture.

Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by Can_Not on Tuesday April 11, 2017 @09:31AM (#14087522)
Did they create peace, or do they export violence?
Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by tim333 on Monday April 10, 2017 @09:28PM (#14084142)
I can think of quite a lot of forms of debt that don't require violence unless you define violence very differently from the dictionary "behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something."

You borrow £20 from your friends, if you don't pay there is moaning but not usually more. You borrow £100k for a mortgage and don't pay and they may change the locks and put someone else in your house but don't usually hit you.

The United violence has nothing to do with debt.

Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by 6t6t6t6 on Monday April 10, 2017 @10:02PM (#14084290)
Re:A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he w... by djsumdog on Tuesday April 11, 2017 @02:58AM (#14085473)
Yes, that's the one.