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Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by PaulRobinson on Friday April 07, 2017 @09:36AM (#14059470)
The Zuckerberg line about younger people being smarter is the dumbest line in history relating to this industry. It makes Gates' claim about 1MB being all anybody would ever need look like beautiful wisdom in comparison.

However, you don't need to be 94 to be brilliant either.

When you're young you have fewer commitments, more time, more energy, and an ability to recover from marathon slogs to get work done. Your lack of experience may hamper you in some fields, but it also allows you to see the World from a different angle which might, given your field, be an advantage.

When you're older, you will have far more experience, insight, and the ability to allow your subconscious to bring together disparate experiences and thoughts into new ideas. However, you may be cognitively locked into seeing things a certain way, you will more likely have other draws on your time and you're less likely to be able to do (or recover from), 100-hour weeks.

Both groups have something to offer, but the idea that one group is better than the other is ludicrous.

Young people are not smarter. Old people are not wiser. They each just have different life experiences, abilities and ways of prioritising time.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by coldtea on Friday April 07, 2017 @04:46PM (#14063369)
>The Zuckerberg line about younger people being smarter is the dumbest line in history relating to this industry. It makes Gates' claim about 1MB being all anybody would ever need look like beautiful wisdom in comparison.

Only it was 640K (the old IBM PC limitation), and Gates never said it (at least can't be verified from any source).

But even if he HAD said it, it's still a perfectly fine claim, since it spoke for users of the IBM PC of the time, given programs and common applications of the time. And as it's said to be told around 1980-81 it was totally write: it took half a decade or more for the limit to even matter to users. Obviously the hypothetical Gates would have perfectly known future PCs would need more memory, and there's nothing in the quote to imply it was meant as something that would be true forever.

Zuckerberg's line on the other hand is total BS. But then again his main claim is hitting the jackpot with the right crappy PHP app that appealed to the zeitgeist. So more of an "right idea at the right time" person than a real genius like Bill Joy.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by aaron-lebo on Friday April 07, 2017 @09:49AM (#14059581)
Only a sheltered 22-year old could make that statement. Dumb indeed.

Old people do tend to be wiser. When you are 20 you simply can't make up for the 10 extra years of experience you are missing against someone who is 30...and someone who is 50 and has used the last 20 years improving themselves (after having a decade of their 20s to make mistakes you can't imagine)...forget about it. No matter how smart you are you can't overcome the slow accumulation of experience that time brings.

I think what Goodenough says about not closing your mind as you age is key. Some old people stop learning, but if you combine a lifetime of learning and being willing to change your mind, it's remarkable what you can do. One of the great detriments to the tech industry is the youth movement. Giving college kids the world is detrimental to the world and ultimately those people. Adversity is good.

You can't know what you don't know?

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by jereees on Friday April 07, 2017 @09:43PM (#14064786)
You are not looking at the big picture.
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by disease on Friday April 07, 2017 @09:55AM (#14059637)
In my experience, great work is rarely the result of "marathon slogs". In fact I would call the result of such slogs the opposite of great.

The article is about genius, but the strengths you attach to the young here apply more to what I would consider being a good worker drone.

When considering the cases of both Goodenough and Zuckerberg, my takeaway is that when it comes to genius, age is a non-factor.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by JustSomeNobody on Friday April 07, 2017 @10:43AM (#14060050)
Pulling all-nighters, working multiple 7 day work weeks, 18 hour days; those are all signs of weakness. But for some reason, some people think it's great and it shows teamwork and loyalty and blah...

It's just a poorly managed/developed project. Plain and simple.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by reefoctopus on Saturday April 08, 2017 @03:08AM (#14065746)
Long days of work are often far more productive for me. It usually takes me a couple of hours to get the entirety of the problem/solution in my head. I might accomplish five or ten times what I would if that 18 hours was split across three days.
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by JustSomeNobody on Saturday April 08, 2017 @10:28AM (#14067062)
That's a different situation than what I am referring to. You're talking more about being in flow. I'm talking about poorly run projects where it becomes a requirement to work long hours and weekends. It simply isn't a sustainable way to work.
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by sol_remmy on Friday April 07, 2017 @10:03AM (#14059681)
Here are some things that decline with age: - Grip strength - Sperm count in men - Sperm quality in men - Fertility in women (even before menopause) - Skin elasticity - Eyesight - Muscle definition - Aerobic capacity - Wound healing rate - Hair growth rate - Sleep quality & duration - Testosterone levels - Thermal adaption to changes in temperature

It appears to me that every bodily system slowly degrades as you age. Care to site any scientific studies showing that intelligence does not decline with age? That is a surprising claim to make.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by tannhauser23 on Friday April 07, 2017 @11:33AM (#14060533)
Read the article? Goodenough credits his old age productivity to the fact that he's been able to think about the same problem for decades, and that he's been able to learn about different fields in sufficient depth that he can find new connections between them.

All the stuff you mention, you can measure. How do you measure intelligence? The kind of intelligence/wisdom that leads to making new scientific discoveries?

I will posit that raw intellectual horsepower might decline with age (and even then, what the hell is this thing and how would we measure it?), but it's also clear to me that decades of accumulated wisdom and study can increase the likelihood of making a new discovery.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by erikpukinskis on Friday April 07, 2017 @12:59PM (#14061392)
Intelligence is not a physical property, it's an information property. It's built out of time, not any physical stuff. It's software, not hardware. And increases in intelligence also increase the efficiency with which the agent gathers information... so even if the sensory bandwidth of the input devices is declining, the perceptual bandwidth can be increasing.

Of course eventually you start running up against mechanical limits and you decline. But that peak is much later than the peak in sensory bandwidth.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by giardini on Friday April 07, 2017 @10:40AM (#14060006)
sol_remmy says:>"It appears to me that every bodily system slowly degrades as you age. Care to site any scientific studies showing that intelligence does not decline with age? That is a surprising claim to make."

Studies show that older people are smarter. Despite your apparent youth, I'm fairly certain you can find the relevant studies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intelli... :

"In psychology, fluid and crystallized intelligence are factors of general intelligence, originally identified by Raymond Cattell."

Fluid intelligence peaks around 18 years of age, then declines.

Crystallized intelligence is your accumulation of knowledge and skill. It increases until age 65 then slowly declines.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by brlewis on Friday April 07, 2017 @02:29PM (#14062293)
Crystallized intelligence is your accumulation of knowledge and skill. It increases until age 65 then slowly declines.

Readers should be careful not to interpret this as meaning you're washed up at age 66. It means you're still close to your peak.

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by hawaiianbrah on Friday April 07, 2017 @10:20AM (#14059827)
Yeah. This quora answer seems to cite some evidence to back up your implication: https://www.quora.com/Intelligence-and-Genetics-Can-does-IQ-...
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by _dps on Friday April 07, 2017 @03:45PM (#14062955)
In intellectual and creative work, the mind is not just hardware but also software and data. It's entirely plausible that the software gets better fast enough (with the right life experiences) to dominate the hardware getting worse with age.
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by oh_sigh on Friday April 07, 2017 @05:44PM (#14063740)
Even if the brain starts to decline, you still have the accumulated knowledge which takes a while to lose.

If peak physical condition was correlated with peak intelligence, we would expect 17-18 year olds to be making major changes in our world

Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by metaphorm on Friday April 07, 2017 @09:53AM (#14059616)
the question on my mind these days, is if Zuckerberg in 2017 is still that foolish. He seems to have learned his lessons about getting caught in public saying foolish things. Does he still believe foolish things though? I think he does, and that frightens me because of how much power he now has.
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by liveoneggs on Friday April 07, 2017 @10:44AM (#14060064)
When Zuck is 50 he will realize how brilliant 50 year old's are, and so on until he is eventually replaced by a younger male. You can read all about it here: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/gorilla/behav
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by sonabinu on Friday April 07, 2017 @11:15AM (#14060372)
I think the hardest part of anyone's career is when the children are young - you do not have time. Unfortunately, it is also the time that you have the moment to spring up in your career because you have experience and energy (which you use for the kids of course and not self growth)
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by pbhjpbhj on Friday April 07, 2017 @11:50AM (#14060672)
Which is a good thing right, preferring the species over the individual's career.
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by gunnyguy121 on Friday April 07, 2017 @02:38PM (#14062364)
that's not what capitalism has taught me
Re:Dr John Goodenough’s story suggests some people become mo... by dsacco on Friday April 07, 2017 @09:46AM (#14059554)
It's not definitive that Gates ever said that: http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/08/640k-enough/