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Re:What makes us Red Hat by digitalshankar on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @02:03PM (#14044144)
Red Hat or the Microsoft of Linux is the face palm of linux distros, forget dependency hell, how on earth someone choose rpm over first class Superior Debian package system or distros like Ubuntu? People just buy it for the support even if the Red Hat they use is Gnome 2 and Firefox V.3.0. Then finally RHCA/RHCE courses, i should get certified from this distro to prove my Linux skills for the companies even though i am a debian guy? No Thanks.
Re:What makes us Red Hat by greenshackle2 on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @02:38PM (#14044454)
Why would you use Ubuntu with it's repository of stale packages and over-engineered package system when you can use pacman on Arch? On Ubuntu you end up having to add a bunch of PPAs if you need up-to-date software for any reason, then it's a nightmare to maintain. People just use it because of its convenient point and click interface and config utilities. Why should I learn to use a mouse even though I'm a command line ninja? No thanks.

(Note: satire. I use and love both Ubuntu and Arch.)

Re:What makes us Red Hat by kbenson on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @02:17PM (#14044279)
> how on earth someone choose rpm over first class Superior Debian package system

So, what makes the Debian package system superior? Having built multiple specs in the past, but not any debs, I'm curious. Given that you can often convert debs to RPMs and vice-versa, and can use the different package managers on either type of repository, it's not obvious where one has any specific benefit.

Re:What makes us Red Hat by chousuke on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @03:39PM (#14044917)
I've built both Debian packages and RPMs, and I feel that RPMs are somewhat easier to wrap your head around. It's been a while since I did Debian package building, though.

It's also undeniably true that there was a time when APT + dpkg blew Red Hat's "equivalent" tools out of the water, but that's not the case anymore.

One thing I like in particular about dnf/rpm is that I can install packages by using functions, so eg. telling yum to install perl(Net::DNS) will work and installs the perl-Net-DNS package. I'm not sure if apt can do this.

Re:What makes us Red Hat by lima on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @05:55PM (#14046002)
And SPEC files are much easier to work with than Debian's folder full of different files.
Re:What makes us Red Hat by snuxoll on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @06:47PM (#14046382)
This is my biggest gripe with debian packaging. Also, the use of make files and the magic that goes on behind the scenes with debhelper (which you probably want to use) makes packaging much less transparent.

It took me days to grok how to make a proper debian package nearly a decade ago when I first did it - writing my first .spec file took an hour or so and now I can hammer most of them out in 15 minutes or less.

Re:What makes us Red Hat by dredmorbius on Thursday April 06, 2017 @04:03AM (#14048781)
Ultimately, Debian Policy.

The software tools and packaging formats exist only to implement that. It's Policy and the comprehensiveness of the Debian archive (60k+ packages last time I checked, a year or so back), which make it bliss. You simply rarely have to go outside it, and you can configure a system as lean or rich, or anywhere in between, as you like.

What Policy states is that the package maintainer (not the user) must or must not do, including incorporating specified, requiring manpages (though that's not a release-critical bug), so that documentation is standardised. The fact that /usr/share/doc/ has every single package installed listed in it, and they don't include the installed version number in the directory names, as RH still does, means that you can use that directory to recover or rebuild from various packaging failures. (Why would you want to do that you ask? Same reason you'd want to have a doctor or hospital nearby if you had a broken leg -- it's not so much what you'd planned on, but it's damned convenient when you find yourself in that situation.)

Joey Hess and Martin Krafft (see the latter's The Debian System) both expanded on more elements of Debian packaging vs. other systems, particularly Red Hat / RPM.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/debian-system/oclc/640083534&r...

Re:What makes us Red Hat by kbenson on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:11AM (#14050622)
> The fact that /usr/share/doc/ has every single package installed listed in it, and they don't include the installed version number in the directory names, as RH still does, means that you can use that directory to recover or rebuild from various packaging failures.

Why wouldn't you want the version numbers? That seems like something you would want when trying to rebuild a package database. Also, what do you do if you have two versions of something installed ?

Re:What makes us Red Hat by dredmorbius on Friday April 07, 2017 @07:04PM (#14064124)
1. Generally you rebuild to the latest available versions of yor specified release. APT sorts version deps as it does package deps, so you don't have to.

2. You can reference content under /usr/share/doc/ without having to specify a goddamned version number that a) changes arbitrarily and b) is inconsistently specified every fucking time.

Version numbers are metadata, not directory name elements.

Changelogs, also required, give you the info if you desperately neeed it.

Re:What makes us Red Hat by houst0n_ on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @03:45PM (#14044966)
There is no difference.

From the top of my head in the last few years I have (and you have also probably) used the following to get software: rpm/yum, deb/apt, pacman, ports, sysvr4(Solaris), ips, homebrew, pkgin, npm, gem, pip, hex, cpan and hmmm probably a few others.

They all do pretty much the same thing, one might have prettier progress bars or a better cli but we're just talking compressed tars with some metadata files.

Competition is good and all that, but how much innovation do we need to drive in package managers? We have lots of tools all doing the same thing with negligible advantages over their competitors and I don't see it as a positive.

Re:What makes us Red Hat by jhasse on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @03:49PM (#14044993)
I have built both debs and rpms and I like rpms more. Both aren't perfect though (still so much fiddling around with Bash in pre/post scripts for doing anything more then extracting a bunch of files).
Re:What makes us Red Hat by scrame on Thursday April 06, 2017 @01:16AM (#14048114)
its not that .deb is a better than format than .rpm, but apt is better than yum, as a dependency manager.
Re:What makes us Red Hat by kbenson on Thursday April 06, 2017 @01:28AM (#14048169)
I've actually never found that to be true, mostly due to a wird cognitive disconnect between the desired outcome and the actions you need to perform.

Either use separate commands for different actions, or distinguish actions with arguments, but don't do both. E.g. apt-get install, apt list, apt-file update.

Re:What makes us Red Hat by FooBarWidget on Thursday April 06, 2017 @02:47AM (#14048465)
To be fair, there is one thing that .deb is better at than .rpm: support for optional/recommended dependencies.
Re:What makes us Red Hat by TallGuyShort on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @03:15PM (#14044724)
So you have an opinion on a religious war and take issue with companies over-valuing Red Hat certifications? Oh my gosh they're literally the devil.