What about the Fairphone + AOSP + F-Droid?

Have you tried using that? Android without Google play is still an exercise in frustration. And Google is purposely designing it that way more and more as time goes on. I don't think the Ubuntu phone is a great phone, but if I have problems, I can usually fix them myself. Good luck doing that with any android that I've tried on.

> Have you tried using that?

Yes, works fine and there are a lot of awesome apps, e. g. https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=osm&fdid=net... or https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=youtube&fdid...

> Android without Google play is still an exercise in frustration.

What are your pain points? Because not being able to install most of the apps in the Play Store also applies to Ubuntu Phone.

> What are your pain points? Because not being able to install most of the apps in the Play Store also applies to Ubuntu Phone.

Mostly being able to find OOTB tools that I want. I use f-droid on my android and I usually end up just going back to the play store to find anything worthwhile.

The Ubuntu phone gives me a real OS that I can just "apt-get install" something, then make a shell-script or something similar to fix my problem. Android's shell-system is a joke, which makes sense as they don't really want it to be usable. Ubuntu's shell system is much better, which means I can fix the problems that I come across myself.

EDIT: I can even use my existing scripts and tools that I have for my desktop on my ubuntu phone. It may be more accurate to say that I want a "Linux" phone, than a "FOSS" phone, but, I'd like it to be both.

> Mostly being able to find OOTB tools that I want. I use f-droid on my android and I usually end up just going back to the play store to find anything worthwhile.

Okay but to be fair: If you had the Play Store on Ubuntu Phone you would probably also go there a lot more often. Especially for OOTB experiences ;)

> The Ubuntu phone gives me a real OS that I can just "apt-get install" something, then make a shell-script or something similar to fix my problem. Android's shell-system is a joke, which makes sense as they don't really want it to be usable. Ubuntu's shell system is much better, which means I can fix the problems that I come across myself.

That sounds nice indeed!

With BB10 (Blackberry's OS) it was backwards compatible with most Android apps, but they didn't use the resources as well and slowed the phone down. If there was a native app, I always went with the native app.

> If you had the Play Store on Ubuntu Phone you would probably also go there a lot more often.

Actually, I would probably not, though I can't deny I would be intrigued to have it as an option. I am able to set up most of the things that I would want via something like apt, or shell scripts or similar

How would you hack a navigation app with shell scripts?

I'm not sure that I would. I guess I could set up some kind of "I'm on my pc, send this address to my phone" script, or "tell $contact when I arrive at $location".

Android is huge. Android works great without GooglePlay, and just raw Android. You just need another AppStore or just install apps manually.

Ask one of your Chinese friends, they have a driving eco system over there.

I've used raw android, and quickly gave up. I've used f-droid, and it is OK. Far from "great" though.