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Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by mschuster91 on Monday April 03, 2017 @05:44PM (#14027479)
I generally agree with this point of view, but a look into history (you don't even have to go back to Hitler or Stalin - the last 10 years should be enough!) proves that "free speech without limits" as done in the US is a path to disaster.

For what its worth, there are not small groups of people running around with Hakenkreuz flags and SS uniforms in the US. A dishonor to all the victims of the Third Reich. Please do not tell me you find this acceptable in any way.

Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by function_seven on Monday April 03, 2017 @06:04PM (#14027639)
> For what its worth, there are not small groups of people running around with Hakenkreuz flags and SS uniforms in the US. A dishonor to all the victims of the Third Reich. Please do not tell me you find this acceptable in any way.

I absolutely find it acceptable. It's proof that the 1st Amendment is alive and well. Consider these groups as the canaries in a coal mine. As soon as they're shut down, based solely on the content of their ideas, the whole point of free speech is doomed.

You may think that only certain categories of ideas should be protected speech, and strive to enact that into law. But when the political winds change and your ideas become unacceptable, you'll have nothing to stand on when your speech is criminalized.

Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by self-diversity on Monday April 03, 2017 @05:50PM (#14027528)
I've been alive and in the US for well over 10 years, and I pay a lot of attention to speech issues. What proof do you believe shows us to be on a path to disaster? I could agree that there are a lot of people who think their feelings should matter more than expression, but "disaster" seems ridiculously hyperbolic to me.
Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by Brendinooo on Monday April 03, 2017 @06:20PM (#14027748)
>there are not small groups of people running around with Hakenkreuz flags and SS uniforms in the US

How 'not small', particularly in relation to a nation of over 300 million people?

>Please do not tell me you find this acceptable in any way.

I do not find such content acceptable in any way. But freedom of assembly and speech is baked into the United States' DNA, and rightfully so. Take a look at the Skokie case[0] - offensive stuff, but the ACLU stuck up for them anyways, and it ended up setting a legal precedent in the Supreme Court.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union...

Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by duncan_bayne on Monday April 03, 2017 @06:16PM (#14027714)
You seem fairly free with your criticism of American free speech, considering _they_ didn't birth Mussolini, Hitler or Stalin.
Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by cookiecaper on Monday April 03, 2017 @10:52PM (#14029145)
Yeah, it's definitely sad and ironic to see people citing dictators, whose first actions are to consolidate the press into a state-controlled outlet and then to swiftly and ruthlessly crush all political opposition, as reasons to place more limitations on what people are allowed to say/think. Are these guys even listening to themselves?

Our values and principles in favor of free speech have been a protection for us. It's crucial to understand this, because as we see in this thread, there are groups that are working hard to criminalize speech that they dislike.

Sadly, this is seeing some success. Americans are forgetting who they are and where they've come from. For me, the question is not whether whether the U.S. will continue to succeed into the centuries ahead, but rather if the U.S., as presently constituted, will hold together long enough to be taken over by a despot or if it will just disintegrate into regional warfare first.

Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by geebee on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @12:06PM (#14034158)
I agree.

I recall a scene from Stefan Zweig's "world of yesterday", where he describes how a group of young men, armed with clubs, stormed a student debate and beat the speakers severely. The police, honoring an old tradition of never entering the debate hall, stood outside as it happened.

I guess I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure when and how this happened, who was behind it, and what it foreshadowed. Zweig is an exceptional writer, and this was an exceptional book. To everyone interested in this thread: please don't take a tl;dr from me on this. There's a lot of interest in Zweig these days, for good reason.

This passage from this book kind of haunts me, and has led me to think about what it means when civil law enforcement and rule of law stands down as politically motivated thugs use violence to shut down free speech, especially but not only in universities.

Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by duncan_bayne on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @05:16PM (#14037293)
That's not far off, at this point. We already have University students rioting to prevent "unacceptable speech" on campus.
Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by jacquesm on Monday April 03, 2017 @06:55PM (#14028007)
I sincerely hope that you will not live to regret making this comment, also, if that's the level you wish to compare the United States with you're not setting the bar very high.
Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by duncan_bayne on Monday April 03, 2017 @08:32PM (#14028533)
Sorry for the excessive snark.

What I meant was, I think the US obsession with freedom of speech is an important one, and helps society to challenge the ideas that underpin totalitarianism. I think the absence of an American Stalin, Hitler or Mussolini is in part a consequence of their historical attitude towards free speech.

This is the most chilling aspect of Trump's behaviour, in my opinion: his disregard for the importance of free speech.

Re:Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous ... by adrienne on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @02:31AM (#14030056)
Hitler got basically all of his ideas about eugenics from the US. In a very real sense we did "birth Hitler".