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Re:An Accident No One Talked About by bitcharmer on Sunday April 02, 2017 @02:18AM (#14016084)
Few years ago I witnessed a traffic accident in which a 16yo boy riding a motorcycle died. I was the first to get to him trying to assess his condition and help. Those were his last moments. There was a lot of blood and I was helpless. I did my best but witnessed him dying anyway. I was 32 years old. I never knew this boy. Nevertheless this was a life changing experience. I'll never forget this neither will I forget having face his poor parents who wanted to hear about their son's final moments from the man who was there. This experience will never stop haunting me. I can easily imagine how devastating it can be for someone who's lost their friend. Especially when you're a kid. If someone from your family experienced this, please don't go the "let's not bring this up" way. That doesn't help.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by cyberferret on Sunday April 02, 2017 @07:06AM (#14016748)
The linked story and yours are both harrowing. But it has spurred me to action. Many years ago, my younger sister, a police officer, was off duty and just driving her car into town when she saw a car plough into another in front of her. She jumped out of her car and raced over to the drivers door, where she saw that the driver had a gaping wound in his neck and was bleeding out.

My sister hates the sight of blood, and faints when getting a needle, but to this day I don't know how she did what she did, which was to reach in and clamp her hand around his neck to try and stem the bleeding, while trying to talk to him. His wife was in the passenger seat, relatively uninjured but screaming hysterically at her husband's condition. My sister said that she looked into the guys eyes while she tried to talk to him and reassure him - she said the look he gave her was one of 'pleading sadness', and she watched while in less than a minute the life went out of him right there and then.

She only ever told me the story once, and our family has one of those stupid 'don't talk about it' rules, which after reading this, I intend to break. She seems fine to this day and doesn't show any outward signs of it affecting her, but next time I get the chance, I will see if she wants to talk more about it.

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by lomnakkus on Sunday April 02, 2017 @08:11AM (#14016859)
Be sure to tell your sister that she's a hero.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by moron4hire on Sunday April 02, 2017 @09:37AM (#14017127)
Most people who have been through such a thing would very much like to avoid having someone call then a hero.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by lomnakkus on Sunday April 02, 2017 @03:08PM (#14018467)
Not having been through the experience, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate?

FTR, my sentiment was really just about reminding people you care about that they are, in fact, appreciated.

EDIT: ... and there's hardly enough vomit in the world, is there? I'm sorry, that sounded absurdly cheesy, but it actually does matter.

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by moron4hire on Sunday April 02, 2017 @09:18PM (#14020007)
In English, the word "hero" can mean two slightly different things. As you're using it, it's a person who has performed some great feat in service to another, especially if that feat involves sacrifice. A hero in this sense is performing a selfless act.

But that meaning is a relatively modern extension of the original idea of heroes being "just" people who perform great feats. If you read the great epics, any people the heroes end up saving are often incidental. The heroic acts are for the glory of the heroes, a distinctly selfish act.

It's a bit difficult to explain, if you don't know the feeling. There's a reason I said "been through" rather than "done". Things can happen so quickly that you don't really apply rational thought to what you're doing. And as with all such situations, we tend to post-hoc rationalize what we did. So for a heroic[selfless] act to not be a heroic[selfish] act, it must be done solely for the good of those involved, not for any praise or glory for the "hero". It can make the act feel meaningless to receive praise for it.

You're often the clearest eye-witness to the event, but that doesn't mean you're objectively reliable. At best, you don't know why you did any particular thing. You might say "anyone would have done it." It feels bad to receive praise for a common act.

At worst, you second guess everything. You worry about the mistakes more than anything "right" you did. What if you hadn't hesitated for what felt like an eternity (when outside observers would probably say you sprung into action immediately)? What if you hadn't forgotten to carry your pocket knife today, so you could have cut the seat belt into a tourniquet (despite seatbelts being extremely difficult to actually cut). What if you hadn't pressed so hard during CPR that you broke their ribs (except CPR done correctly is very likely to break ribs)[0]? In emergency situations, the odds are against you, so even if you do absolutely everything right, you're probably not going to "succeed". It definitely feels bad to receive praise when you think you've screwed up.

That's why you'll see so many people say they "just want to move on." It's easier to bury the issue than deal with any one of those things, and it's highly likely the person is going through all of them. The most thanks someone will want is to see the person they tried to help walk away happy and safe; a thanks from that person will be sincere and will feel real. From anyone else who wasn't involved, it will only serve as a reminder of something the person would rather forget.

People don't want to receive praise when they don't feel like they deserve it. People feel like they deserve praise when they've done hard work and they've done it well. You want to thank a cop or EMT or doctor or search-and-rescue volunteer? Don't thank them for that one event over which they probably feel conflicted. Thank them for their choice to join their profession and their choice to continue to wake up every day and go back to it.

Incidentally, that's also why you probably shouldn't thank a soldier "for their service." You don't know why they joined. Some people have joined not out of a sense of service to country, but a sense of desperation to get out of a bad situation at home. And once they have joined, they can't easily un-join. Continuing to show up to be a soldier is not a daily choice. Or maybe they've joined for all the "right" reasons and they believe every day that their choice was the right one, the vast majority of military personnel are in support--not combat--positions, and that person might feel they are not deserving of praise because they are not in danger. Thanking a soldier for their service--especially if you're a random person on the street and only know they are a soldier because they are wearing a uniform--could be reminding them of lots of things outside of their control.

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by lomnakkus on Friday April 07, 2017 @04:16PM (#14063165)
Thank you for that comment. I haven't fully digested it yet, but thank you.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by 3131s on Sunday April 02, 2017 @04:17AM (#14016393)
It's a pretty common thing to witness unfortunately in poorer countries with bad road conditions and lots of motorbikes. I have seen firsthand a few terrible accidents in which multiple people died in horrific ways.

I also saw a thief beaten to death pretty much right in front of me, which haunts me even more. I witnessed it from my balcony and by the time I got downstairs (with the intention of stopping it) it was too late. There was also a suicide in my neighborhood where a young boy jumped off his balcony from about 5 stories up. I was out exercising so fortunately I didn't see it, but when I got back my neighbors all told me and the next day I saw photos in a newspaper taken right near my apartment of a monk blessing the boy's body. My wife as a child also saw a foreign English teacher jump off a tall building. It can be really depressing living in an impoverished place.

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by SEJeff on Sunday April 02, 2017 @10:05AM (#14017202)
This experience is precisely why you should never ask a war veteran if they've killed someone. Many times they have, but more often than not they've had to watch someone they were close with die.

Source: am a veteran

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by dpeck on Sunday April 02, 2017 @10:27AM (#14017283)
Maybe if we talked about the horrors of war more we'd have less of them in the future.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by RUG3Y on Sunday April 02, 2017 @11:28AM (#14017490)
It's a nice hope, but the people initiating the wars are not the ones who fight the wars. We'd have less wars if bankers and politicians had to fight in them.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by sangnoir on Sunday April 02, 2017 @12:55PM (#14017826)
> It's a nice hope, but the people initiating the wars are not the ones who fight the wars

True enough, but wars tend not to last long after they lose public support (or the population 'suffers from low morale'). Having veterans speak out and seeing flag-draped coffins on the front pages tends to do that (see Vietnam), which is why modern governments try to control the war narrative ("embedded" journalism, psy-ops, etc)

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by edoceo on Sunday April 02, 2017 @12:20PM (#14017662)
Would pay to watch a banker fight a politician
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by drdeadringer on Sunday April 02, 2017 @02:38PM (#14018327)
This sounds like a line from Riker on STTNG. Paraphrased: "Maybe if we felt everyone's deaths as closely as we do the ones close to us, human history would be a whole lot less bloody."
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by ProAm on Sunday April 02, 2017 @10:45AM (#14017342)
Maybe if everyone had to serve we'd achieve the same. Forcing people to talk about some of their profoundly dark times often because they needed a job isn't the way to go about it.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by Normal_gaussian on Sunday April 02, 2017 @11:01AM (#14017382)
That would require constant and horrific war, otherwise those that served wouldn't see anything. Seems like a non-starter.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by WalterSear on Sunday April 02, 2017 @11:23AM (#14017475)
Well, it don't know where you are, but the US pretty much has that covered.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+has+america+been+at...

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by ProAm on Sunday April 02, 2017 @05:47PM (#14019223)
The realization you might be called on to kill your fellow man or have another human kill you over imaginary lines and ideals might be enough to get the point across....
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by glandium on Sunday April 02, 2017 @06:02PM (#14019294)
You don't realize you might be called until you are.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by mannykannot on Sunday April 02, 2017 @10:33AM (#14017307)
I wish, but the fact that there was a WWII does not hold out much hope.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by dpatriarche on Sunday April 02, 2017 @12:44PM (#14017770)
WW2 made Europeans and east Asians anti war -- the people in whose countries the wars were fought. It's only Americans and Canadians who view WW2 as the "good" war. Our countries got to play the hero role and beat the super villain, we were largely untouched (relative to what other countries suffered), and at the end there was years of economic prosperity. What's not to like?
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by mannykannot on Sunday April 02, 2017 @01:26PM (#14017995)
Sorry if I did not make it clear - the much-discussed horrors of WWI did not stop WWII.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by mobiplayer on Sunday April 02, 2017 @05:26PM (#14019122)
WWII was more like a second act of the same war really. Wounds were not closed.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by mannykannot on Sunday April 02, 2017 @06:28PM (#14019419)
Yes - I tend to the view that WW2 in Europe was a continuation of WW1, while the War in the Pacific was essentially an independent conflict going on concurrently. Even from that perspective, Germany was not facing an existential threat in 1939, yet chose war.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by drdeadringer on Sunday April 02, 2017 @02:36PM (#14018320)
One of my neighbours is a Vet and I've never asked.

I have listened when he's brought it up on his own accord, when he's been on both ends of war violence [giving it or receiving it]. They're not the prettiest images to imagine, let alone experience first hand as he did, but it's mine to listen and his to tell.

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by SEJeff on Sunday April 02, 2017 @04:15PM (#14018821)
Thankyou, this is exactly the best thing in the world for someone struggling with seeing things that no sensible human being should see.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by M_Grey on Sunday April 02, 2017 @07:22AM (#14016775)
I had a similar experience, and I'm a bit slow to process extreme emotions so in crisis I'm very calm. A few days later though, it hit me while I was in the shower and my guard was down; I started shaking and I didn't know why. I literally dropped the washcloth and realized that I was crying, then I realized why, and it all hit me. As you say, it's one of those things that never quite heals, it just... skins over a little. Sharing does seem to help.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by delerio on Sunday April 02, 2017 @01:42PM (#14018095)
I'm the same way. I recently opened up to a friend of mine about a traumatic experience. They wondered why I seem so calm all the time, I'm the calmest person they know. It helped me alot just to talk to them about it, even though the situation was long gone, it haunted me for years. Yet I never showed any emotion over it on the outside, even though on the inside I was not right.
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by M_Grey on Sunday April 02, 2017 @02:54PM (#14018410)
I'm glad that you came to the same conclusion about talking helping, like you it was difficult before that. In my teens and early twenties a lot of people just assumed that I was weirdly calm. It's not easy for people like us to open up and say, "It hits me, it just takes time to process and it all happens inside of my head."
Re:An Accident No One Talked About by bootload on Sunday April 02, 2017 @05:31AM (#14016562)
"I was the first to get to him trying to assess his condition and help. Those were his last moments. There was a lot of blood and I was helpless."

Those first ten seconds are shocking. For me it was understanding ^control^, the lack of control and the fight to get it back. The situation you were presented @bitcharmer is binary and anything other than a win can be seen as failure.

For me it took a long time to understand that whatever I did, I had no real ^control^. Understanding control, the complete lack of it, in extreme situations like the one you describe lets you move one step closer to understanding death. To understand what it is like in @bitcharmer shoes, read happened in a similar situation back in 2012 (non fatal) https://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/7949327460

After this I'm one for one.

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by codinghorror on Sunday April 02, 2017 @03:22AM (#14016287)
My heart goes out to you. That is a heavy thing to bear witness to.

We don't get a lot of death intruding in our lives when we're young. But it starts to creep in as you get older and it is ... very unsettling.

Re:An Accident No One Talked About by spydum on Sunday April 02, 2017 @09:23AM (#14017065)
I find it interesting that for some people it is a truly humbling and transformative event, and others it's a debilitating one. Wish I had explanation for the difference though.