(GH doesn't seem to have an easy way to jump around time and directly find commits. I jumped to the oldest tag, went to the commit list, clicked "older", edited the tag out of the URL then followed "older" to the start. Took around 15 clicks.)
This doesn't change the fact rustc is slow, but it certainly makes the developer experience much better. Try it out!
That said, rustc is still slow. A valid complaint.
2. rust needs unions
Rust has two types of unions:
- tagged unions a.k.a. sum types. These are preferred
- #[feature(untagged_unions)]: actual C-style unions, unsafe, useful for C interop
You probably want the first kind. Rust does have them!
3. linked lists are great
Linked lists are great! I use them in one of the main Rust programs I'm working on. The thing about Rust linked lists is how you write one will depend entirely on your memory model.
One of the best tutorials on Rust explains the language's memory model in terms of linked lists. It's a great read, a harrowing tale of "fighting rustc" until you achieve victory:
I'm using immutable arena-allocated linked lists, which is a great pattern. This is in conjunction with tagged unions, and together I have an immutable sum type + list memory model for a sort of Lisp-alike VM.
I did have to implement my own linked lists. The code is not terribly complicated. It'd be nice if there were standard one-size-fits-all linked lists in e.g. the "collections" module, but the type system needs a bit more work before it will be generic enough for that to be a good idea. Until then, you'll have to write your own or use a library given your unique constraints. But that's not really different from C...
4. "the circlejerk" a.k.a. the community
If you dislike the community there's not a lot to say. It's probably a bad idea to use a language whose community you dislike.
I personally think Rust has a great community.
5. rust's safety is overrated
C programmers routinely make memory safety mistakes, even if they're experts, even if they're using static analysis tools. You don't have to use Rust to have a safe memory model... any JVM language or most other managed language runtimes will do.
If you're writing a trivial C program it's possible it's safe. But it only takes one mistake for things to go from safe to catastrophic in C.
Re:Why I moved from Rust to simpler, cleaner C
by charlieflowers on Saturday April 01, 2017 @10:38PM
(#14015454)
>> "together I have an immutable sum type + list memory model for a sort of Lisp-alike VM"
So are you saying that you're using Rust as if it were a higher level language? Almost as if you had garbage collection? (If so, that's very interesting. I've been wondering about ways to do that when it's appropriate for the task at hand).
Re:Why I moved from Rust to simpler, cleaner C
by yandrypozo on Sunday April 02, 2017 @12:04AM
(#14015713)
> "Every time there is a post on Hacker News or Reddit about a vulnerability in C, the strike team comes out to mention a rewrite in Rust"
I thought it was only happening with Go posts, but I can see it's happening with C and C++ too, which other programming language do you know is suffering Rust attacks ??
[0] https://github.com/FascinatedBox/lily/tree/9ed9a706e0a1f99ff... (Tree at a random commit a while back)
First commit: https://github.com/FascinatedBox/lily/commit/1e509cbdd56ef36...
Commit list at oldest page: https://github.com/FascinatedBox/lily/commits/master?after=9...
(GH doesn't seem to have an easy way to jump around time and directly find commits. I jumped to the oldest tag, went to the commit list, clicked "older", edited the tag out of the URL then followed "older" to the start. Took around 15 clicks.)
[1] https://github.com/FascinatedBox/lily/issues/294
That being said, rustc _is_ slow.
[1] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/2369
[2] https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/rust-release-milestone-pre...
There are exactly two valid* points in this post:
* i.e. not completely without meritI'll just go through these really quick:
1. rustc is slow
Rust just shipped (in beta) incremental compilation, a technique commonly used by compilers to speed up recompiles:
https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/incremental-compilation-be...
This doesn't change the fact rustc is slow, but it certainly makes the developer experience much better. Try it out!
That said, rustc is still slow. A valid complaint.
2. rust needs unions
Rust has two types of unions:
You probably want the first kind. Rust does have them!3. linked lists are great
Linked lists are great! I use them in one of the main Rust programs I'm working on. The thing about Rust linked lists is how you write one will depend entirely on your memory model.
One of the best tutorials on Rust explains the language's memory model in terms of linked lists. It's a great read, a harrowing tale of "fighting rustc" until you achieve victory:
http://cglab.ca/~abeinges/blah/too-many-lists/book/
I'm using immutable arena-allocated linked lists, which is a great pattern. This is in conjunction with tagged unions, and together I have an immutable sum type + list memory model for a sort of Lisp-alike VM.
I did have to implement my own linked lists. The code is not terribly complicated. It'd be nice if there were standard one-size-fits-all linked lists in e.g. the "collections" module, but the type system needs a bit more work before it will be generic enough for that to be a good idea. Until then, you'll have to write your own or use a library given your unique constraints. But that's not really different from C...
4. "the circlejerk" a.k.a. the community
If you dislike the community there's not a lot to say. It's probably a bad idea to use a language whose community you dislike.
I personally think Rust has a great community.
5. rust's safety is overrated
C programmers routinely make memory safety mistakes, even if they're experts, even if they're using static analysis tools. You don't have to use Rust to have a safe memory model... any JVM language or most other managed language runtimes will do.
If you're writing a trivial C program it's possible it's safe. But it only takes one mistake for things to go from safe to catastrophic in C.
So are you saying that you're using Rust as if it were a higher level language? Almost as if you had garbage collection? (If so, that's very interesting. I've been wondering about ways to do that when it's appropriate for the task at hand).
I thought it was only happening with Go posts, but I can see it's happening with C and C++ too, which other programming language do you know is suffering Rust attacks ??