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Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by MichaelApproved on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:08AM (#13994647)
> end-to-end only device to device (so I can't swap seamlessly from a desktop to a mobile session)

How do you accomplish a seamless swap from desktop to a mobile session using end-to-end encryption?

Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by 16 on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:48AM (#13994865)
https://riot.im

Most seamless end-to-end encrypted solution I've come across. And it's still in beta. Every piece is open source (I'm running my own server), it's federated, supports history sync as a first-citizen feature, individual read receipts for group messages. The UX is not as polished as Telegram, but it's improving rapidly and is more than usable as a daily driver.

Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by ouesp on Thursday March 30, 2017 @09:38AM (#13995194)
How is the quality of web based VoIP through the browsers in your hosted riot.im ?
Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by cschmittiey on Thursday March 30, 2017 @10:54AM (#13995879)
Using riot.im/app/ to communicate with others worked surprisingly well, quality seemed good.
Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by ouesp on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @03:33PM (#14044861)
I ended up installing Mumble in aws because I only need voice.
Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by danieldk on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:11AM (#13994667)
iMessage has end to end encryption and supports multiple devices. Each device uses its own keypair and when a message is sent, it is sent encrypted for each of the recipient's devices.

https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by sleepychu on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:28AM (#13994758)
How do I find out that my recipient has a new device/public key that they'd like me to encrypt with?

If it's because Apple tells me so then I think can see that the end to end encryption is broken and interception is possible.

Are old messages re-encrypted with the new key?

This would be even worse.

Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by pfg on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:38AM (#13994805)
iMessage does not allow for any out-of-band key verification. It's correct that that Apple (and anyone compromising them) is in a position to change the recipient's key or add new ones without the sender noticing anything's going on. I think iMessage limits this to new messages. (I believe syncing is done through iCloud, which doesn't use E2E-crypto but is optional.)

It would still be possible to implement this in a secure way (including out-of-band key verification) by having the "original" key (the one you've compared out-of-band) sign keys for new devices and have the server deliver that signature (which the sender can then verify). I don't know if there are any implementations of this.

Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by samat on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:28AM (#13994755)
The hard part is how do you manage a list of trusted devices.

The thing which is really sad is that there are no end to end encrypted group chats.

Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by 16 on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:50AM (#13994875)
https://riot.im is doing this.

e2e is in beta still, but they have key list management/verification in place already.

Re:Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered by pfg on Thursday March 30, 2017 @08:40AM (#13994813)
> The thing which is really sad is that there are no end to end encrypted group chats.

In iMessage specifically, or in general? WhatsApp/Signal do use E2E-crypto for group chats.