Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by AstralStorm on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @03:27AM
(#13984126)
Unfortunately containers provide about the same security as chroots too. Nothing even close to a true virtual machine with not much lower cost.
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Chroot does not provide security, just a restricted view on the file system. Container can provide pretty ok security, but fail with Kernel Exploits. VMs provide better security, but also fail with VM exploits (which there are quite regularly some).
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by AstralStorm on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @08:13AM
(#13985266)
Actually many of the VM exploits are related to qemu device emulation or paravirtualization drivers, which are closed by the use of Xen stubdom. Only very few were privilege escalation via another vector, both in kvm and in Xen. I have no idea about other hypervisors.
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by bonzini on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @04:10PM
(#13990111)
And in turn most QEMU vulnerabilities are closed by SELinux of your distribution enables it. Libvirt (and thus the virt-manager GUI) automatically confine each QEMU process so that it can only access the resources for that particular VM.
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by maccam94 on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @04:23AM
(#13984339)
Seccomp, apparmor, and namespacing (especially user!) do add a lot more security than plain old chroots, but still not at the level of a VM.
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by cm2187 on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @05:46AM
(#13984622)
But couldn't containers have been designed that way? One thing I have in mind is one of windows 10 recent features, which consist in running certain applications using the same hardware level memory protection mechanism than VMs, so that the application is safe from the OS/Kernel, and the OS/Kernel is safe from the application (can't find the exact name for this new feature unfortunately).
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by daenney on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @05:57AM
(#13984671)
Containers can't be designed that way as long as the primitives to build them that way (which are mostly part of the Linux kernel) are missing. That's a core part of the article. Containers aren't an entity by themselves, they're a clever and useful combination of an existing set of capabilities.
It is like that... but in Zones or Jails, not in Linux "container toolkit"
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by bonzini on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @04:09PM
(#13990089)
No, the Windows 10 feature he's talking about uses Hyper-V internally. It's called, unsurprisingly, Hyper-V containers: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/windowsconta...
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by cm2187 on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @04:29PM
(#13990260)
Actually I found it. It's called Windows 10 Virtual Secure mode
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Seth-Juarez/Windows-10-Virtu...
(or Windows 10 isolated user mode, which seems kind of similar)
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Seth-Juarez/Mitigating-Crede...
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs
by bonzini on Saturday April 01, 2017 @01:02AM
(#14010530)
Oh yeah that's another use of Hyper-V, somewhat similar to ARM TrustZone. It's used to implement "Credential Guard".