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Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by cocktailpeanuts on Sunday March 26, 2017 @02:25PM (#13962234)
There are already many "serious upstarts" that are doing just fine but will never reach the status of Google, like duckduckgo, bing, etc.

Some even say bing has better search quality than google. But that's not what matters. No matter how good the product is, if you can't get distribution it doesn't matter. Also, even if you do have distribution, it may not be the right context so it won't be effective.

If anyone is trying to really build a search engine to compete directly against Google, I can only say good luck, and prepare to be the most patient person on earth, because it won't happen fast, and probably won't even happen. Instead, while you're slowly making progress day by day with small traffic increase, you'll see some random new thing come out that had no intention of becoming a "search engine" (just like Youtube) and "disrupt" Google.

I have seen a lot of people talk about "disrupting something", and also have seen a lot of people who actually have disrupted their industry. The former are just wannabes, and the latter never said anything about "disrupting" something. They just saw an opportunity and went for it. And it ended up disrupting. Hope this makes sense.

p.s. Google doesn't operate on the original pagerank anymore, there are tons of other things going on underneath. Also they now own many innovative AND popular "search UI" both through acquisitions and their R&D. Google Maps owns a lot of the map space, Youtube owns the video search space, and so on. Look deeper and you'll find even more that you've been taking for granted.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by thesmallestcat on Sunday March 26, 2017 @02:37PM (#13962307)
We can agree to disagree about Google's immortality, but I take issue with you treating DDG and Bing as serious challengers to Google. Obviously Microsoft has no chance, they're worse off than Google re: ossification and Bing is a hedge at best. DDG is one step above a lifestyle business and only innovates at the UI level, even their efforts there are forgettable. Their major differentiator (data privacy) is meaningless to almost all users, and ironically torpedoes many interesting monetization strategies that are not ad-focused, as well as research initiatives.

Baidu and Yandex are serious but are comfortable in their respective positions. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Google challenger spring up from the other side of the world, where Google's position may not be seen as so unassailable.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by greglindahl on Sunday March 26, 2017 @03:15PM (#13962545)
While google has a much stronger brand than bing, they give roughly equivalent results except for a few categories such as "paste the error message I just got into the search box" queries. Google's much better for those longer queries. HN readers are probably more likely than average to make them, too.
Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by cassowary on Monday March 27, 2017 @01:53AM (#13965462)
Hm yeah. I use DDG except for error messages when I use Google.
Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by cocktailpeanuts on Sunday March 26, 2017 @03:12PM (#13962520)
> We can agree to disagree about Google's immortality

Dude where did I say Google is immortal? I'm just saying it's a wrong approach to try to kill google this way. There are many good ways to do it and coming from "How do i disrupt Google" is the worst possible way.

> Obviously Microsoft has no chance, they're worse off than Google re: ossification and Bing is a hedge at best.

Nothing is obvious when we talk about disruption. Why does Microsoft have no chance? I am pretty sure they keep Bing alive because they are looking at the future where they finally gain control over the platform via VR/AR/or whatever, and then use Bing to power the experience on those platforms, which actually may be the case Google can't compete against. But this is Microsoft. If you're a small startup, you shouldn't be doing this.

> DDG is one step above a lifestyle business and only innovates at the UI level, even their efforts there are forgettable. Their major differentiator (data privacy) is meaningless to almost all users, and ironically torpedoes many interesting monetization strategies that are not ad-focused, as well as research initiatives.

Privacy is a great feature, especially in 2017, and I think DDG has the highest chance of getting any market share with this "let's make a search engine to disrupt google" approach (but again, this likely won't happen and is a foolish approach. It will stay down there as an "alternative" until the founder runs out of steam, OR if there's a huge shift in how people experience the Internet and somehow takes off completely independent from the company's effort)

> Baidu and Yandex are serious but are comfortable in their respective positions.

Baidu and Yandex will never work out side of their countries because of the cultural barrier. In fact it's not just those, every country with significant Internet penetration rate has their own dominant search engine. In those countries Google is nothing. Which means this cuts both ways. So No. Baidu and Yandex are NOT serious contenders just like Google is not a serious contender in Russia and China.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by bshimmin on Sunday March 26, 2017 @04:04PM (#13962903)
I wonder, is DuckDuckGo's name a problem for adoption? I have no idea what it's supposed to mean, but it sounds very silly and I don't much enjoy recommending it to people in real life, at least in part for that reason. ("Google" was a silly name too, but at least it was just one syllable of silliness.)

Privacy is probably slowly growing into a big deal in the minds of regular people, but when the incumbent works, and works better (in my experience Google does just return better results than DDG - and I really did give it a try, in earnest, for a solid week a few months back...), privacy alone isn't going to be enough at this point.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by cocktailpeanuts on Sunday March 26, 2017 @04:28PM (#13963079)
Yeah like you pointed out, if your product stands out so much that nothing else matters, then you can name it whatever you want. But duckduckgo is just a glorified meta search engine and they are not doing anything completely unique. In this case branding matters and I think their name is really bad for branding. There are many examples of really bad naming, like cockroachdb and swagger. Swagger ended up changing their name to OpenAPI (Thank god) but I don't know what the cockroachdb guys are thinking. I don't want to use a DB named after a bug (pun intended).
Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by corobo on Monday March 27, 2017 @01:50AM (#13965452)
> I wonder, is DuckDuckGo's name a problem for adoption

For me it is too, yeah. They even own duck.co which would be a better brand. It'd be a pain in the arse to tell others to use to start ("duck dot com?" "no, dot co") but nowhere near as silly sounding as duck duck go.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by flukus on Monday March 27, 2017 @08:17PM (#13972933)
> Privacy is probably slowly growing into a big deal in the minds of regular people, but when the incumbent works, and works better (in my experience Google does just return better results than DDG - and I really did give it a try, in earnest, for a solid week a few months back...), privacy alone isn't going to be enough at this point.

I've had the opposite experience lately, DDG has been almost identical to the google results, to the point where the seem to be calibrating there own searches with google. Unfortunately it means it also suffers the same problems.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by jaredsohn on Sunday March 26, 2017 @04:06PM (#13962913)
>I have no idea what it's supposed to mean

I've understood it to be a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck,_duck,_goose; the wikipedia article on duckduckgo confirms.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by bshimmin on Sunday March 26, 2017 @04:21PM (#13963020)
Is this an American thing? I have never heard of it.
Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by cassowary on Monday March 27, 2017 @02:16AM (#13965547)
I played Duck Duck Goose when I was a kid in Australia.
Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by gregjw on Monday March 27, 2017 @06:06AM (#13966361)
I played Duck Duck Goose when I was a kid in the United Kingdom.
Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by amyjess on Sunday March 26, 2017 @05:12PM (#13963325)
I'm convinced that the only reason Microsoft is keeping Bing alive is to keep Windows 10 users from funneling money to Google by default.
Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by nojvek on Monday March 27, 2017 @12:45AM (#13965239)
Windows use is pretty large and Bing is profitable. Edge is funded by bing profits I believe.

Only large companies can afford to make browsers. They are insanely complicated beasts now. Google because ad and Android, Microsoft because windows and Bing, Apple because of ios. Firefox is facing struggles and Opera gave up to webkit.

Disrupting Google search is going to be very hard. Google invests more than anyone in AI. If someone were to disrupt Google, they have to have very strong models of the world, natural language parsing, image recognition, knowledge reasoning, troves of data and an ocean of servers and fibre.

Google hasn't been sitting idle, they've been disrupting themselves and pushing towards those fronts.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by Animats on Sunday March 26, 2017 @03:10PM (#13962508)
prepare to be the most patient person on earth, because it won't happen fast, and probably won't even happen

Maybe not. The Cuil experience is significant. The PR for the launch was good, there was a huge initial traffic spike, and then users discovered the product sucked and traffic dropped. The system at launch was terrible. Six months later it wasn't so bad, but nobody cared by then. They launched too early. But they did, briefly, have mindshare, lost through technical ineptitude.

Re:Ask HN: Is there room for another search engine? by jacquesm on Sunday March 26, 2017 @04:52PM (#13963217)
I think the bigger problem with Cuil is they over-hyped their offering before launch which could lead to nothing but disappointment.