News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Daniel Dennett’s Science of the Soul by naasking on Thursday March 23, 2017 @03:58PM (#13943642)
> A talking lion would still be a lion.

But it's not. Lions can't talk, almost by definition. A talking lion is necessarily a creature so different from a regular lion that it can't reliably tell you what being a regular lion is like.

It's like how smartphones aren't really phones, they're computers with telephony capabilities. Calling them phones is ridiculous when you really think about it, but we apply that label for historical reasons based on their evolution from early phones. Still, opening up a smartphone won't really tell you anything about how regular phones work.

Re:Daniel Dennett’s Science of the Soul by thevardanian on Thursday March 23, 2017 @04:16PM (#13943827)
Talking lions are just lions with trans-species communicating capabilities. Lion communicate with each other instinctively. They at the very least understand each other, whether we understand lions is a different point.
Re:Daniel Dennett’s Science of the Soul by naasking on Thursday March 23, 2017 @05:17PM (#13944390)
> Talking lions are just lions with trans-species communicating capabilities.

In other words, completely different brains than regular lions. So, not lions.

Re:Daniel Dennett’s Science of the Soul by scott_s on Thursday March 23, 2017 @06:11PM (#13944819)
I agree with your position (and with Dennett's). "Talking" is not like an independent module with a lede you can attach to a lion's brain to get it to talk. It must be integrated with the lion's brain, and that necessarily changes the brain to the point that it's no longer a "lion." This is because even simple statements like "I am hungry" require the ability for sophisticated abstraction. "Talking" is more than mere vocalization, it's also the thought processes behind the vocalization. Once you've changed a brain so that it is capable of those sophisticated abstractions, it's no longer the same.
Re:Daniel Dennett’s Science of the Soul by thevardanian on Thursday March 23, 2017 @10:25PM (#13946099)
Is a person missing half a brain, in a vegetable state with little hope for recovery not human?
Re:Daniel Dennett’s Science of the Soul by naasking on Thursday March 23, 2017 @10:37PM (#13946168)
Except they're missing half a human brain. A talking lion would not have a lion brain.
Re:Daniel Dennett’s Science of the Soul by mercer on Friday March 24, 2017 @03:16AM (#13947238)
In the context of, say, figuring out what makes humans act the way they do: most certainly not.