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Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by rsync on Thursday March 16, 2017 @11:51AM (#13886024)
"How about every 60 minutes you work, 30 minutes of that is spent establishing the world around you?"

I am perfectly happy to look at it that way, and indeed I do.

Please don't deploy the "I'm arguing with the anti-tax guy" toolkit here - I am not that guy.

The problem I have, and that I think many people have, is that fraction:

30/60 = 1/2 = getting a bit silly.

YMMV.

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by jlebar on Thursday March 16, 2017 @12:54PM (#13886585)
The problem I have, and that I think many people have, is that fraction: 30/60 = 1/2 = getting a bit silly.

But why? I mean, are you just rationalizing? "I think 50% taxes is a lot just because I do, therefore I think it's bad policy." Or is there a logical reason that 50% is "a bit silly" but, say, 30% (or whatever your number is) is fine?

This is something that Nobel prize-winning economists fight over -- exactly how high a tax rate is too high? -- so I kind of doubt we're going to resolve it here on HN. My point is that we all have feelings ("I don't like the color mauve", "50% taxes rubs me the wrong way"), but these have to be separate from motives for enacting policy.

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by braveo on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:15PM (#13886812)
You're only 1/2 way away from slave labor at that point.

And when you factor in other taxes, you pay more than 50%, it's too much.

And if I choose not to pay those taxes, my freedom is taken away, so don't tell me the slave point is invalid.

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by undersuit on Thursday March 16, 2017 @03:23PM (#13888235)
>You're only 1/2 way away from slave labor at that point.

No one getting taxed at an effective 50% tax rate in the United States is anywhere near a slave. The minimum wage McDonald's worker with a 15% tax rate is the slave.

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by esrauch on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:25PM (#13886908)
His point is that the same things apply to 30% tax: you are only 2/3 away from being a slave, if you don't pay your 30% your freedom is taken away.

There isn't a rational difference between 30 and 50, the only difference is "I feel that it is too much", right?

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by braveo on Sunday March 19, 2017 @06:05PM (#13909947)
There is absolutely a rational difference between 30 and 50%.
Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by esrauch on Sunday March 19, 2017 @07:35PM (#13910509)
The numbers are clearly different, but not in the "one is slavery and the other is not" kind of way right?
Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by braveo on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @04:56PM (#13926134)
We as a society went to war with companies over how much time they can require of us. Nowadays companies can only require us to work roughly 23% of the hours in a week.

50% is 84 hours/week, we as a society have already deemed the difference between those to be significant enough to fight about.

The difference between 50% of your income and 30% of your income is significant.

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by Daishiman on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:26PM (#13886922)
No, you're just 1/2 away from the point where your return on investment is not justified. And that's fine; there's a lot of perfectly valid reasons a situations where working is not worth it.
Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by rsync on Thursday March 16, 2017 @03:57PM (#13888597)
"But why? I mean, are you just rationalizing? "I think 50% taxes is a lot just because I do, therefore I think it's bad policy." Or is there a logical reason that 50% is "a bit silly" but, say, 30% (or whatever your number is) is fine?"

No, I don't think I am rationalizing or being irrational.

Note: I don't make any claims to know what the right overall tax rate is - if you're asking me about 32% vs. 38% vs. 29% ... I am as lost as you, and those economists, are.

However I think that 1/2 is not an arbitrary point on that scale - I think there is a qualitative difference between more than one half and less than one half.

If I am assessed more than one half of what I earn, that's unfair in a way that I believe appeals to innate concepts of fairness that we all share, rather than "I just don't like that number".

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by lap42 on Thursday March 16, 2017 @05:59PM (#13889586)
Laffer Curve.

10% will be enough in the future, except for those countries in war, like US always will be.

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by jchrisa on Thursday March 16, 2017 @12:17PM (#13886254)
That's the American right propaganda sinking in. Times of higher tax burden have been economically more productive. It's already the government's money. Redistributive taxation is parsimonious use of funds.

Great chart in here about USA tax burden being below average: https://taxfoundation.org/comparison-tax-burden-labor-oecd-2...

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by lap42 on Thursday March 16, 2017 @06:02PM (#13889618)
Right propaganda or freedom propaganda?

You are entitled of what you've done, period.

Anything above 10% is theft.

"Times of higher tax burden have been economically more productive" -> this is just false, a falacy. Prove it somehow.

Sweden was a very rich nation before high taxes, now it's just rich, net jobs after high taxation in 50 years is ZERO. They are just letting go now, cutting taxes more and more.

I wonder why US economy is booming right now, maybe because Trump is going to cut taxes?!

Oops...

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by bbctol on Friday March 17, 2017 @10:25AM (#13894187)
Well, the government has defended you from foreign threats, protected the monetary system that lets you earn in the first place, provided for your public education, established your infrastructure, and been a check against your home burning down or being robbed. If everyone's entitled to what they've done, what are they entitled to?

Capitalism is a system, like any other, created by humans and not found in nature. "Ownership" is not some property of matter; what it means to own something is that there is a legal system that supports that deed and an armed police and military to enforce it. There is no concept of ownership except for a truly anarchic "everything I own is in a box that I have the key to" idea that does not require other people to guarantee your property rights.

Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by SpikeDad on Saturday March 18, 2017 @12:41PM (#13902083)
Oops my ass. The US economy is not booming - the US stock market is artificially inflated because investment speculators are betting that companies are going to use this obscene period in time to take advantage and do whatever they want to increase corporate profits in further concentrate the wealth in smaller and smaller circles.
Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by JustAnotherPat on Thursday March 16, 2017 @12:58PM (#13886633)
what about passive income i.e. 0/60? Should that be taxed at 99% since you're not spending any time working for it? Conflating time worked with a tax rate seems like a red herring to me.
Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by ferentchak on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:27PM (#13886925)
I always think it's interesting how we actually tax capital gains much less than normal salaries. It's weird that that income doesn't need to contribute to our society and help pay for things like Medicare but income that you work for does. My understanding is that there is some fancy economic theories that say this is the right way to do things that I don't have the knowledge to confirm nor deny. Economists aside it still feels wonky™.
Re:Anthony Bourdain on not having debt by TillE on Thursday March 16, 2017 @12:47PM (#13886511)
If you're going to that abstract level, what does the dollar amount of the money you're "earning" even mean? Everything is part of a huge system.