News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:I bought my daughter heroin by RobertoG on Friday March 10, 2017 @02:25PM (#13841284)
Apart from the terrible human suffering that drugs (and their criminalization create), there is another factor that is not, in my opinion, discussed enough.

Drugs are and amazing business and making them illegal, make rich to the worst kind of people. It's giving power to the last people you would want in power.

So, in the consumer countries you have addicts suffering. In the producers countries you have wars and societies totally corrupted, and the worst of the worst get rich.

Amazing strategy.

It looks more like a war on humanity that a war on drugs.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by digi_owl on Friday March 10, 2017 @03:12PM (#13841698)
Frankly reading up on The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs is disheartening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_...

Keep in mind that it came into being right as the Nixon years used anti-drug legislation to effectively take down blacks and hippies.

On top of that you have nations that wanted to hedge around their big and growing pharma industries, and others that was negative to all drugs (except their local cultural ones) for religious and cultural reasons.

In effect religion and economics trumped medical science, and the world has been dealing with the blowback ever since.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by erikpukinskis on Friday March 10, 2017 @03:28PM (#13841826)
It's not a war on humanity it's a war on the working class. The capital class can pay lower wages the more of the labor class are dealing with drug addicted family members. Because it makes the employee afraid.

Companies make a 2x, 3x, 10x, 100x premium off of labor. The only way they can do that is with a perceived shortage of "work". The way they do that is to make enough political instability that a strong single digit percentage of people are visibly falling through the cracks of solvency. Drugs help.

Many business owners are aware on some level that they could double salaries and stay solvent, but they don't think about it, they think in terms of "market rates" for labor, and they want rates to be as low as possible, so they subconsciously collude in cultural movements which make work seem scarce, and life scary and chaotic.

Their brains don't drift to the "what if we all just work hard and get paid a fair share? what if every employee was on a partner track?" scenario because they would lose money. And they're the ones deciding what the partner agreement says so it doesn't change.

There's no technical reason in 2017 for there to be any unemployment, for anyone to be hungry or need health care, lack access to the internet, or anyone to work more than 20 hours a week.

The problem is if that happens, the working class will rest up, get educated, and demand fair compensation for their wages, and the capital class will be stuck with a piddling 20% of the global economy instead of the 80% they currently get.

So they fight tooth and nail to keep a certain level of instability, in the workforce, and in far away places.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by civilian on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:18PM (#13842201)
The war on drugs is reducing the amount of labor available. If we follow the principles of supply and demand-- if Business Owners wants to pay employees less, then they want _more_ people to be available to work, and they also want those people to have lower cost of living. Having people in prison and having people pay for their family member's drug addiction reduces labor supply and increase cost of living.

I think you have a conspiracy narrative, and you are trying to fit evidence to support it.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by orclev on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:22PM (#13842685)
The principle of supply and demand doesn't really work, it's too simplistic a view. In the small scale, in a controlled environment sure it works fine, but real markets are messy with lots of factors impacting them, so it tends to break down rapidly. This has always been the failing of those that hew to the freemarket capitalist ideal, this unfailing belief in supply and demand as a market driver.

One (but certainly not the only) missing factor here is a discussion of skilled vs. unskilled labor. The market for skilled labor is relatively small compared to unskilled labor, but even in that market companies struggle sometimes to fill positions, that's one of the claims companies backing H1B programs make (even if it is a bit dubious). On the other hand, there's an almost unlimited supply of unskilled labor available, and that's growing all the time. Further complicating things is the fact that the demand for unskilled labor is directly driven by the size of the market, and they tend to scale together.

People desperate for any work to offset their costs of living are more willing at accept lower pay if it means getting a job and that's exactly the situation we see evolving now. All of this so far has been predicated on the supply side of things being the driver, but there's also the question of demand. If people had options they could fall back on then the unskilled labor market would demand higher wages and refuse to work under the poverty line forcing employers to increase wages. The problem is of course that people are so desperate for anything at all that they're willing to work in jobs that can't keep them financially viable because it at least slows the collapse. Eventually they'll either move into a skilled position that gives them a better chance, get sick, die, or turn to crime or drugs to try to cope. Long term this is of course economically disastrous, the middle class has all but ceased to exist, and the economy is slowly grinding to a halt as more and more of the population finds themselves unable to take part meaningfully in it. However in the short term it means record breaking profits for corporations. It's pretty obvious to anyone who's watched the policies that corporations have pushed for the last 40 years exactly what choice they're going to make.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by badosu on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:20AM (#13844500)
Very lucid viewpoint
Re:I bought my daughter heroin by M_Grey on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:25PM (#13842259)
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-...

Far from reducing labor, you just turn it into largely unpaid, forced labor. AKA "The way it's always been".

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by crdoconnor on Saturday March 11, 2017 @02:47AM (#13844688)
"The war on drugs is reducing the amount of labor available. If we follow the principles of supply and demand-- if Business Owners wants to pay employees less, then they want _more_ people to be available to work, and they also want those people to have lower cost of living."

If you suddenly have a lower cost of living you have increased your negotiating leverage. This often leads to higher wages.

Similarly, increasing people's desperation commensurately decreases their wages.

Penal labor is, incidentally, big business:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by erikpukinskis on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:57PM (#13846344)
The war on drugs only reduces the labor pool by what... 2% max? The premium capital makes on labor is often 100% or more. The lost labor is worth it to them for the chilling effects.

Regarding conspiracies.... There's no conspiracy. Like I said, I think most business owners realize they are making money off their employees. They just don't benefit from paying people a fair wage because they don't have the infrastructure to capture the additional value created by a growing human being.

It makes sense when you think about it: The reason they are a capitalist and not labor is that they don't want to have to do repetitive work, or sometimes don't want to work at all. As your employees develop new skills and abilities, it takes work to restructure the business around them. It's repetitive. "Oh, another one of my tech support people wants to train to do product design. Great." Most capitalists find it easier to just structure the company to support one kind of labor and then try to prevent employees from growing out of it.

Due to information technology, we're getting close to being able to scalably restructure organizations around a group of people with continuously progressing skills, but it's a hard problem. Only a handful of companies (with great management) are able to do it by hand today.

So for now, labor is stuck in a low energy state, even though there is a stronger equilibrium at a higher, "fair" pay. Individual companies don't benefit from going against the norm, so there's a chicken and egg situation, which creates an opening for the afformebtioned disruptive technology.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by civilian on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:42PM (#13846548)
This is the quote from your original post that I find odd:

> so they subconsciously collude in cultural movements which make work seem scarce, and life scary and chaotic.

I agree that business owners will offer someone lower wages, because the job they're providing is very stable. (i.e. my friend had a choice between being an assistant manager at a chain sandwich shop, or being a manager of a new restaurant in a different city. He's taken the low-risk option.)

I also agree that there are structures that exist that encourage the drug war to go on. The iron triangle between: Politicians passing drug laws and other harsh criminal laws, DAs who want perfect records, police & prison guards who want more overtime and toys, and the unions that represent police and prison guards and lobby for more laws.

It's the business owner -> drug war link that I find tenuous. I know several business owners, of multi-million dollar companies. They aren't consciously thinking like you say they are, they are simply thinking "who do I need to hire to get this job done".

Admittedly, maybe I need to be talking to the CEO of a company that primarily employs retail or blue-collar workers.

You also make the claim that it's subconscious, so I don't even know how to collect evidence in regards to that...

I don't think your theory is falsifiable. Because you're making conjecture about someone's subconscious, and about a small group, it's nearly impossible to prove or disprove.

What kind of evidence would you need to change your mind?

//edit and I have to give credit to the other replies--- the prison workforce is a great counter-example to why the drug war would be useful from an evil capitalist perspective. I feel embarrassed that I missed that :/

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by tomjakubowski on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:21PM (#13842228)
Prisoners in the US are available for certain kinds of work, and get peanut-scale wages for their labor.
Re:I bought my daughter heroin by badosu on Saturday March 11, 2017 @08:40AM (#13845381)
"... so they subconsciously collude in cultural movements which make work seem scarce, and life scary and chaotic"

Would you mind describing the reasoning behind this part?

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by M_Grey on Friday March 10, 2017 @09:19PM (#13843792)
You're not the first person to observe this essential fact, but it just seems that it never percolates to policy makers and their gerrymandered voting blocs.

Say no to drugs but the governments' kept it Running through our community, killing the unity The war on drugs is a war on you and me And yet, they say this is the Home of The Free But if you ask me, it's all about hypocrisy...

I mean... people liked Tupac for a reason, flaws and all.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by acchow on Friday March 10, 2017 @03:26PM (#13841812)
Aren't drugs made illegal as a matter of national security?

See also: the opium wars.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by laughinghan on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:56PM (#13843465)
Huh? Are you talking about the opium wars where China was invaded by the British and forced to stop trying to combat their opium epidemic? I've never heard of an interpretation of events where China made opium illegal in an attempt to forestall invasion by Western powers.
Re:I bought my daughter heroin by fragmede on Friday March 10, 2017 @08:47PM (#13843671)
"forced to stop trying to combat their opium epidemic" is a really euphemistic way of saying China banned opium inside their borders, so Britain invades China so Britain can sell opium to China.

It was a national security concern, insofar as smugglers bringing cocaine, heroin, and marijuana into the US via Mexico are a matter of national security for the US.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by laughinghan on Monday March 13, 2017 @04:11PM (#13861892)
What's euphemistic about it? I used the same intensity words as your description (literally the same words, like "invaded") and mention a superset of the information (I asserted that the ban was primarily intended to combat their opium epidemic, as opposed to e.g. hurting British interests).

It's circular to bring up the US War on Drugs to support the argument that the opium wars were about national security, in response to a comment challenging whether the opium wars support the argument that the US War on Drugs is about national security. My whole point is that I'm skeptical of the case that either is about national security.

Re:I bought my daughter heroin by M_Grey on Friday March 10, 2017 @10:20PM (#13844026)
Another lesson in the unintended consequences of prohibition.
Re:I bought my daughter heroin by emodendroket on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:44PM (#13842416)
That's not really what's happening in this case.