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Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by otterley on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:02PM (#13797333)
The question I'm left asking from posts like these is:

As a non-game developer, what practical advantages does Windows hardware and software provide over Mac?

The writing doesn't make it clear to me. Sure, there are some interesting facts noted, but there's no connection drawn or relationship established between the facts and the impact on the author's ability to work, or the work product itself.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by AdeptusAquinas on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:35PM (#13797604)
Cheaper and faster, broadly, which has been the same for as long as I remember: for an equivalent price, you can get a much more powerful PC than you can a Mac (though there are exceptions: the surface book matches up closely with a 2015 macbook pro I believe).

After that, it depends on what you are doing. I develop using a PC, macbook (for iOS builds usually) and a Linux machine (running mint).

Linux is best for Node/JS heavy development, IMO, largely because of the long filenames in Nodeland and the general linux-first documentation and help. Recently I have found its also pretty good for Dotnet Core development. The OS is nice as well as in that sort of bare-metal coding, it kind of gets out of the way.

Windows, either with VS or VS Code, is for things that require a lot of power or are huge (usually related): Docker stuff is easier, solutions with hundreds of projects, etc. When I want to throw code against a tiny god, the PC is my go to.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by otterley on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:40PM (#13797644)
> Cheaper and faster, broadly

Presumably the author has already purchased the Mac, in which case, s/he's already obtaining the benefit from that purchase. To rationally justify the replacement cost (which is not just the cost of the hardware itself, but the opportunity cost of learning the new platform, purchasing new software, etc.), the benefits of switching have to be greater.

It's those benefits--not necessarily of the platform itself, but of switching--that aren't clear to me.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by AdeptusAquinas on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:54PM (#13797745)
My reading of the author was that he (Owen Williams) switched when he needed to upgrade. He had a Macbook which suited him for a few years, and now needed to decide to go with the late 2016 models or buy into PCland (which gave him much more bang-for-buck).
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by grub5000 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:24PM (#13797953)
Gaming, VR, upcoming 3D and Cortana are a few reasons I can think of why someone might pick Windows over MacOS.

I think you're discounting the performance aspect as well - if workload X is too slow on the fastest mac, it may well still run on a windows machine since they can be specced higher. Cost isn't a factor for everyone - sometimes you literally just need the fastest possible machine, in which case Windows can be it.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by 746F7475 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:32PM (#13798011)
>Gaming, VR, upcoming 3D

Am I missing something or does this seem like one thing? Or is there use case for VR that isn't gaming? And what is 'upcoming 3D' exactly?

>if workload X is too slow on the fastest mac, it may well still run on a windows machine

Can't argue with that, but what are such workloads if you are not game developer? Wouldn't cluster of Linux servers always be a better choice? Unless of course you are die hard Windows fan.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by grub5000 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:43PM (#13799616)
I was thinking media editing/consumption (e.g. Video production, music making etc.). Presumably the Machine Learning GPU crowd get some use out of Windows machines too
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by rodgerd on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:25PM (#13798369)
> Or is there use case for VR that isn't gaming?

Training and design.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by otterley on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:42PM (#13798072)
> As a non-game developer...
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by grub5000 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:42PM (#13799610)
3D/VR design and creative activities (or even just consumption), Cortana, higher performance media editing/creation... plenty of possibilities.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by TuringNYC on Monday March 06, 2017 @01:16AM (#13801002)
I can answer this. (Background: I was a PC user 1989-2007. MBP user 2008-2016. Back to PCs from 2017 onwards.)

I do machine learning development. It is very helpful to have a CUDA-compliant GPU (read: NVIDIA) on your local machine so you can develop and run things quickly. Yes, you can use AWS, but that is costly, you need to push your data into the cloud, and you definitely cannot do it w/ sensitive data such as health records/medical images with localization clauses. None of the major machine learning platforms work well on non-CUDA compliant GPUs, most are barely functional outside NVIDIA cards.

I waited over a year for the new MBP and was disappointed to see no NIVIDA GPU on them. I love the MBP, it is an absolute pleasure to use. But the new line had barely any horsepower improvements. It was almost a step back from the 2014 MBP I already owned. Further, the cost was obscene for the value/improvements I was getting.

I'm not happy about it, but I purchased an Alienware w/ a hefty NVIDIA card and 32GB RAM. It is a beast, but it meets my work needs. I do miss the agility of a MBP (e.g., carrying it in one hand to a cafe or onto a plane), but ultimately horsepower is needed more.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by owenwil on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:03PM (#13797345)
Why not spin it around the other way? What advantages does Mac now have over Windows, in a world where Microsoft is catering to developers from both sides?
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by Doctor_Fegg on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:23PM (#13797505)
I don't think it's "Mac vs Windows" specifically. It's more that the compelling advantages that the Mac once had over _every_ other platform are being eaten away.

My first Mac was in 1992 (a IIsi). Since then every computer I've bought (servers aside) has been a Mac.

Last week my MBP died. The battery overheated and 'burst', taking the case and trackpad with it. I'll still have a Mac desktop for development and cartography, but I need a laptop, and I simply can't justify £1250 for a MacBook.

Instead, for the first time in 25 years, I'm buying something else: a Chromebook, on which I'll install Ubuntu. It's pretty much the same weight (1.19kg vs 0.91kg) and size; it does word processing, web browsing, PDF viewing, and Ruby hacking just fine; and it costs £1,000 less. Sure, the performance is much, much worse, but for my uses that's fine.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by wyager on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:14PM (#13797436)
* Actual UNIX, as opposed to a hacky compatibility layer.

* Generally nicer hardware even compared to things at the same price point. Don't forget that hardware is more than RAM and CPU specs. There are some notable exceptions with pretty nice hardware, like the surface pro tablets.

* More friendly UX all around. This is somewhat subjective, of course, but if you'll recall a while back there were some big corporate IT departments who explained that IT costs were much lower for Mac users. They chalked this up to a combination of increased user friendliness, lower virus risk, and increased reliability.

The only activity in my life where I actually choose to use Windows is for FPS games. However, that advantage is disappearing; over half my steam games support mac now.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by otterley on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:18PM (#13797457)
Don't take the bait! Otherwise this thread will devolve into a petty OS war.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by maxxxxx on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:37PM (#13797625)
I work on Windows and have a Mac at home. Windows looks cool at first but when you actually need a workhorse the MacBook is still the best option in my view. Windows 10 and the Surface Book look really nice on paper but once you start using them they have a lot of little problems that make an unpleasant experience.

So in my book the Mac is still best but I also agree that the direction Apple is going doesn't look too promising.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by eertami on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:55PM (#13797748)
I too use both. OSX at work, and Windows (7) at home. They are both bad, neither is the best.

I remember spending time trying to figure out how to disable the animation that plays when switching OSX virtual desktops - only to find out that you literally can't without code injection or a third party app - rendering the virtual desktops on OSX entirely useless.

The fact that this a) is the default behavior and b) is not configurable, is just another in a long line of awful OSX UX and it only gets worse with every update. El Capitan changed terminal font smoothing to something woeful which was also a struggle to revert.

Honestly the only way I have found development possible on native OSX and Windows is by stretching a terminal(/putty) to the full size of the desktop and handling all window management with tmux.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by UnbornSoul on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:27PM (#13797973)
System preferences > Accessibility > Display > Reduce motion. You're, welcome.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by midwestcode on Monday March 06, 2017 @04:49PM (#13806354)
This has always been an issue with both iPhone and my MBP (though I just got them last year). There are _so_ many options in Sys Prefs and otherwise, and there typically is an answer to problems you're having, but they feel hidden...

Pretty minor issue though, I still love both. I'm just not sure if I'll love the new versions everyone seems to be whining about :)

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by otterley on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:05PM (#13797359)
Because this is an article about abandoning the Mac, not Windows. If it were the other way around, then that would be an equally fair question.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by vhakulinen on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:31PM (#13797564)
If you "can" switch between Windows <-> Mac, why not give linux a spin? Like, if you're not building apps with native UI kits on those platforms, what is holding you on them?
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by hamandcheese on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:51PM (#13797718)
Lack of compelling evidence that there's a *nix distro out there that will serve me better than macOS.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by vhakulinen on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:14PM (#13797882)
But are you switching to windows? Or have have you recently switched from windows to mac?
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by AsyncAwait on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:49PM (#13799644)
I really recommend looking outside the Ubuntu ecosystem, (Arch is a personal favourite), if you ever decide to try it.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by jccalhoun on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:28PM (#13797547)
While I don't want to hijack the op's thread, I would like to hear more about the advantages of the mac. I listen to some mac-centric podcasts and hear them complain about the current state of the mac so much but when they mention windows they just say vague things like "but windows is worse." So what is better about a mac?

To give more detail on my use case: I'm not a developer so things like terminal or unix don't really matter to me. And I don't think I've had a virus since the 90s.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by hamandcheese on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:47PM (#13797691)
> so things like terminal or unix don't really matter to me.

That's really what it's all about though. Many developers prefer a unix environment. Windows is often neglected in open source, so getting up and running with a working dev environment can be a challenge. So, for many, Windows just isn't really an option.

That leaves macOS as the only option that's a first class citizen in all regards -- hardware support from manufacturer, support in open source projects, support for proprietary applications (I.e MS Office), etc.

For non-programmers though, there really isn't a meaningful difference. Take your pick.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by tstrimple on Sunday March 05, 2017 @08:09PM (#13799998)
I wonder if and how quickly this will shift with Bash shell support in Windows 10. Unfortunately, there still isn't a great terminal emulator on Windows. ConEmu looks really sad next to iTerm2.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by 746F7475 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:37PM (#13798043)
If I already have a Mac and I'm invested into the Apple ecosystem things on Windows needs to be 10-100 times better for me to make the switch.

If you are just starting out or you aren't in the Apple's ecosystem (e.g. you don't have Idevices) then Windows might be the place for you. I'd still go with Linux personally, but that's just me. Or if you just need more power, but I'm guessing most people here don't actually NEED that much power

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by abraae on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:25PM (#13797515)
Because why abandon anything if it's better than the alternatives?
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by Jdam on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:08PM (#13797394)
It doesn't constantly give me "Windows Explorer has stopped working"
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by owenwil on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:09PM (#13797401)
I don't think that's been a thing since 2006.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by AsyncAwait on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:43PM (#13797662)
We get similar arguments on the Linux side, which haven't been true for a decade.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by Jdam on Sunday March 05, 2017 @04:10PM (#13798660)
Getting that every other day, but to be fair, on a remote machine, connected with Citrix
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by Ralfp on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:06PM (#13797832)
Sometimes MacOs reminds me of those times when Explorer could stop working:

- If I have sublimetext maximized on other display, my mouse cursor gets stuck at default pointer, no longer changing on context.

- If I have same sublimetext maximized on other virtual screen, my mouse cursor stucks in text select.

- Option to reorder icons in dock via drag and drop goes away randomly.

- When I plug display to my MBPro 2016, menubar has white square where tray goes.

- It gets stuck in boot -> kernel panic -> restart -> boot loop when I am starting it with display plugged in via their HDMI dongle.

- On random, finder stops showing changes in filesystem. I've had this happen to me in Mavericks on old laptop, it keeps happening in Sierra on new one.

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by throwawayish on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:11PM (#13799446)
A PC (yes, true, technically Macs are now PCs, but they're still special PCs, or at least Apple says that) has mainly the advantage that it's cheaper while being faster. Now, to be fair, I don't like to use laptops (they're slow, limited and annoying), so I mostly refer to desktop hardware (best bang/buck ratio, easy to make very, very silent, very fast, easily extended).

Quarrel over operating systems is pretty pointless, if it doesn't run natively, slap a hypervisor on it and run whatever you like in a VM; for me that'd be a Linux or BSD, I'm not really opinionated there (although certain things run faster in Linux due to experience).

(Obviously I don't grok the laptop lifestyle, I don't understand the "work everywhere" mentality, in fact, I don't want it at all. It's called work place for a reason - at least for me. I do have a laptop (or half a dozen, who has time to keep record?), the mainly used one is a Getac unit with a carrying handle that weights ~3 kilos or so; at least it's silent, has a superbright screen and a battery that's larger than most ultrabooks by volume ;)

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by touristtam on Thursday March 09, 2017 @08:28AM (#13829063)
> A PC (yes, true, technically Macs are now PCs, but they're still special PCs).

You obviously don't understand what those 2 letters stand for (hint it stats with Personal and ends with Computer).

Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by myrryr on Sunday March 05, 2017 @04:58PM (#13799003)
well, if you do stuff in machine learning, then being able to put in some good graphics cards is a big deal.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by ufo on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:55PM (#13799673)
One of the advantages is that you can install Linux on it. Generally, it is much easier to install Linux on a regular PC than on Apple hardware.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by danielsju6 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:58PM (#13799683)
touch screen, convertibles, pens, price, performance, and better battery life (if comparing to the most recent macbook generation)
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by domenukk on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:27PM (#13799530)
Touch screens and pen support, use the same device for development, creating and for browsing in bed.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by xiaoma on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:11PM (#13798257)
Modularity, extensibility and price would be a few advantages.
Re:Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up by Chyzwar on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:53PM (#13797734)
1K $