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Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by krapp on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:04PM (#13788937)
Of course they are.

NOAA does nothing which panders to populist sentiment. NOAA can't put steel workers to work. NOAA is not the grit of honest American labor, or the power of military conquest, or the gold of a halcyon age.

NOAA cannot Make America Great Again, but a new fleet of aircraft carriers can.

So it goes. Tie a rock to a string and hang it outside your window to see which way the wind is blowing.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by LnxPrgr3 on Saturday March 04, 2017 @02:48AM (#13789863)
Sure, but its products help keep those populists alive—or at least give them a fighting chance.

I bet everyone in Alabama at the time remembers April 27, 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Super_Outbreak

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by 50CNT on Saturday March 04, 2017 @07:29AM (#13790607)
Also, isn't accurate weather information and prediction essential for forecasting in industries such as Energy, Agriculture, Transportation, Construction, etc.?

There's a 2002 paper by NOAA which outlines some of their estimates (http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/worldsummit/pdfs/economics...) regarding economic impact.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by drdeadringer on Saturday March 04, 2017 @06:57PM (#13793668)
I have a doubt that keeping those populists alive is a goal here in lieu of, say, money or at least profit -- regardless of long-term "if no populous, no tax or consumer basis" outlook.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by bobmno on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:22PM (#13789003)
17 trillion in debt, time to cut back
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by Analemma_ on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:38PM (#13789071)
Have you actually read the White House's plan? They themselves (I'm not strawmanning here) have said that overall spending and the debt is going to increase, most of that going to the military. No "cutting back" is happening.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by dashundchen on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:41PM (#13789082)
Not sure if you're sarcastic or trolling .

Cut back on by far the largest and most expensive military in the world then.

NOAA budget 2016: $5.8 billion

US military budget: $600 billion

And they're proposing a $54 billion increase.

You could probably trim 10 NOAAs from the military industrial complex and nothing would be lost.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by derefr on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:54PM (#13789132)
With the proviso that US military support and materiel has been used as trade goods for alliance-making with other countries for most of the last century. A large portion of the US military budget is "being the substitute military for US allies."

The key question of decreasing US government spending is how to get other countries to pony up for the "renting" of the US military forces that they're already doing (because the alternative is that the US withdraws military support from those countries—and then those countries build back up their own militaries. Which, undoubtedly, would put us in a very different world than the one we're in right now...)

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by rgbrenner on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:31PM (#13789274)
You should take a look at world military budgets... actually look at the countries that are spending the money.

$1.7T/year in total military spending worldwide.

China at 200B, Russia at 70B.

Iran? 22nd largest military budget at $10B.

The rest of the big spenders are our friends and allies. I'm not going to count up every country, but roughly 1.3T to 1.4T is spent by the US + allies + friendly countries.

Who are we preparing for war with?

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by tremon on Saturday March 04, 2017 @04:18AM (#13790094)
Who are we preparing for war with?

Our own citizens, of course.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by makomk on Saturday March 04, 2017 @10:44AM (#13791325)
One of the scenarios that concern the EU is Russia invading and occupying EU states before Nato or the US can respond, present them with a kind of fait accompi and hoping the political will to respond won't be there. So the US needs the ability to convincingly be able to take on entrenched Russian occupation of multiple other countries and take them back.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by gpawl on Saturday March 04, 2017 @06:59PM (#13793692)
The US Military leadership has publicly lobbied against raising military spending at the expense of other government activities. They know that national security depends on a comprehensive international relations investments.

The White House is pandering to their populist base and contravening the advice of their own military experts

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:28PM (#13789266)
I think this is a good point, and I'm not sure why it's been downvoted.

It's important to consider the sometimes positive externalities of the current levels of defense spending. Even more so, it's important to consider where we or others have come to rely on those positive externalities.

For example, I'd be perfectly happy with the US withdrawing from many parts of the world and closing foreign bases. However, I do imagine there would be sometimes not so subtle consequences to doing so. Is the current balance of global power sufficient to prevent large scale and disastrous conflict? Do we risk tipping that balancing in one direction at some point?

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by yestoallthat on Saturday March 04, 2017 @10:52AM (#13791371)
Does the US lending both hands to fucking up the Middle East make anything more stable? What stability was achieved by Vietnam, or all that stuff in South America? Not disastrous enough for you? Would you swap with even just ONE of the millions of people affected by some of the more insane atrocities this knight in shining armor committed? Thought so.

Another fact that is generally completely omitted is that best, soldiers defend against other soldiers (and in practice, they kill a lot of civilians because war is tough), so in a way those people justifying war machineries in other countries are not the excuse, they are the counterparts. It's an axis of sociopaths and conformists against humans, and this rift goes through all nations, even some families. The root causes for these rationalizations matter, not so much the rationalizations, those always shift. A child kicking a dog and Abu Ghraib differ in scale but not principle, as does looking on to either. Those onlookers love to use "we", but there is no "we" here, speak strictly for yourself.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Saturday March 04, 2017 @11:11AM (#13791453)
Not seeing what you're trying to argue. Lots of appeal to emotion here. I'll make it simple for you:

1. Me: High levels of defense spending has easily identifiable consequences. But we need to be careful that we also take time to identify the positives and consider them.

2. You: The US has done bad things in the past and war is bad.

I don't disagree with you, but you're not rebutting my point.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by yestoallthat on Saturday March 04, 2017 @11:25AM (#13791511)
And why would any positives matter, if there weren't actual people and their lives, and suffering inflicted or avoided, involved down the line? Lots of appeal to robots here. I'm not a robot.

> But we need to be careful that we also take time to identify the positives and consider them.

Yes, and then you need to circle back and consider both, in context, including opportunity costs.

> The US has done bad things in the past and war is bad.

Respond to what I said or don't, but don't appeal to a 3 year old you're not talking with.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Saturday March 04, 2017 @11:31AM (#13791545)
>And why would any positives matter, if there weren't actual people and their lives, and suffering inflicted or avoided

That's implied. You're either missing the point or not arguing in good faith. Have a good day.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by krapp on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:39PM (#13789074)
Yes, we need to make room for the the trillions of dollars in new spending Trump has already proposed.

And statues. Many, many statues, wrought from American steel.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by bitJericho on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:42PM (#13789091)
The military is 60 percent of the budget.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:45PM (#13789102)
It's not. Defense comes in at 15% of federal spending. Social security and medicare combined come in at 4x that amount.

Source:http://federal-budget.insidegov.com/l/120/2017-Estimate

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by xenadu02 on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:35PM (#13789293)
Yeah and they take a very specific tax out of everyone's paycheck to pay for those two programs.

If you want to have an argument about them that's fine but they have separate budgets and should be discussed separately.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by gpawl on Saturday March 04, 2017 @07:01PM (#13793706)
They are both taxes. All else equal, taxpayers would happily pay 1pts more income tax and 2pt less social security, or vice versa. All my tax dollars are the same color.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by yardie on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:19PM (#13789238)
Lumping social security in with taxes? You must be very good with numbers.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:37PM (#13789297)
I'll ignore the ad hominem.

Minus SS, it's still less than 21% of total federal spending.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by 1_2__3 on Saturday March 04, 2017 @12:41AM (#13789498)
If you're going to concede that point (ss) then the same applies to Medicare. This completely destroying your argument coincidentally.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Saturday March 04, 2017 @10:37AM (#13791287)
It doesn't. Defense spending is not 60% of the "budget". Further, it's not a large component of the total federal budget.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by peteretep on Saturday March 04, 2017 @03:59AM (#13790047)

    > I'll ignore the ad hominem
Insulting someone's intelligence is not an example of the ad hominem fallacy.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by findateamfirst on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:56PM (#13789143)
Those are non discretionary and funded by totally separate channels.
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:09PM (#13789200)
And?

Mandatory spending is more than twice that of discretionary. Of discretionary, defense makes up less than 50%.

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by spott on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:45PM (#13789325)
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers: care to elaborate?

This[0] directly contradicts you:

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud...

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by ra1n85 on Saturday March 04, 2017 @10:38AM (#13791293)
Here: http://federal-budget.insidegov.com/l/120/2017-Estimate

Mandatory: 2.56T Discretionary: 1.08T

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by nickthemagicman on Friday March 03, 2017 @10:55PM (#13789137)
Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by CalChris on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:22PM (#13789251)
> The military is 60 percent of the budget.

50% of the discretionary budget. You were embarrassingly close.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-...

Re:White House proposes steep budget cut to NOAA by bitJericho on Saturday March 04, 2017 @11:20PM (#13794579)
I prefer to include veteran benefits.