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Re:In praise of cash by ghaff on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:05AM (#13783753)
I can go weeks without touching cash these days. Nonetheless, I find the idea that I could be prevented from making a person-to-person financial transaction for even a modest amount without a paper trail pretty unsettling.
Re:In praise of cash by Animats on Friday March 03, 2017 @03:14PM (#13785970)
In China, all ATMs are supposed to record serial numbers.[1][2] That's already deployed. There's no secret about this; some ATMs in Hong Kong give you a list of the serial numbers of the bills just dispensed on their receipt. Coming up next, face recognition.[3]

Many ATMs already have the hardware. To improve counterfeit recognition, most ATMs which accept cash now take a high-resolution image of both sides of the bill and do considerable processing on it. It just takes a software upgrade.

Some bank counting machines also have this feature. Cummings markets their cash counter to law enforcement, so they can capture all the serial numbers from a drug bust and track them.[4]

[1] http://www.grgbanking.cn/en/chinaATMs/images/H68NL.pdf [2] http://hkmb.hktdc.com/en/1X09V6YK/hktdc-research/ATMs-to-pro... [3] http://en.yibada.com/articles/35951/20150601/china-worlds-fi... [4] http://www.cumminsallison.com/us/en/products/currency-handli...

Re:In praise of cash by delinka on Friday March 03, 2017 @06:23PM (#13787874)
But that still doesn't track with whom you spent that cash.
Re:In praise of cash by vkou on Friday March 03, 2017 @06:32PM (#13787929)
Unless your counterparty goes ahead and deposits it in their bank at the end of the day.

If five of the twenty bills you withdrew at 9 am were deposited by Seven-Eleven at 7 pm, I can guess that you went shopping at Seven-Eleven... And more likely then not, I'll be right.

A particular bill does not change hands very frequently between ending up at a bank. If anything, a bill that you withdrew not ending up back in circulation is suspicious.

Re:In praise of cash by Animats on Saturday March 04, 2017 @01:57PM (#13792297)
A particular bill does not change hands very frequently between ending up at a bank.

Right. At one time the US Fed estimated that the average number of transactions for cash outside a bank was two. That's an old number, measured years ago to plan bill replacement. (One of the Federal Reserve's functions is paper bill replacement. Banks pull worn bills and send them to the Fed, which tallies them, shreds them, and replaces them with new bills from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. Dollar bills last about 18-22 months.)

Re:In praise of cash by giardini on Friday March 03, 2017 @02:35PM (#13785570)
Last year I tired of reconciling my credit card and checkbook accounts, so shifted to using cash only (I have credit cards if there's an emergency). So far I'm spending ~10% less each month. I'm more careful about purchases. I get and seek cash discounts. Best of all I don't need to do the reconciliation.
Re:In praise of cash by XorNot on Saturday March 04, 2017 @05:22AM (#13790245)
You realize cash discounts exist for precisely two reasons: the merchant avoids the 1.5-3% credit transaction charge, and (2) the merchant gets to under-declare on their taxes.
Re:In praise of cash by nommm-nommm on Friday March 03, 2017 @04:01PM (#13786500)
Re:In praise of cash by rz2k on Friday March 03, 2017 @06:43PM (#13787991)
How do you ask for a cash discount?
Re:In praise of cash by dougmany on Friday March 03, 2017 @07:17PM (#13788208)
There is a candy store near my house that has a bowl of mixed candy near the register. You can take a piece from the bowl if you pay in cash.
Re:In praise of cash by Joakal on Saturday March 04, 2017 @12:19AM (#13789421)
I've been doing this by just straight up asking. "Is there a discount with cash?" "No" "Ok, I'll pay with my card"

Merchants prefer cash as card costs them money.

Usually works with dry cleaners, cafes, etc. Big businesses generally say no.

Re:In praise of cash by OJFord on Saturday March 04, 2017 @01:03AM (#13789561)
Funny, I've always viewed it as a card surcharge rather than a cash discount.
Re:In praise of cash by nommm-nommm on Saturday March 04, 2017 @12:17PM (#13791818)
Merchants don't always prefer cash. There's trade-offs to both. If merchants always preferred cash then there wouldn't be merchants who go cashless, and there are.
Re:In praise of cash by mavhc on Saturday March 04, 2017 @08:25AM (#13790792)
Working with cash costs money too, counting, storage, transport, costs to deposit/get out of a bank
Re:In praise of cash by thinkmassive on Saturday March 04, 2017 @12:34AM (#13789480)
Many gas stations will prominently display the cash/debit price on the big sign, and the credit price may not be visible at all until you get to the pump.

I'm not sure if this is more prevalent in certain regions, because I never noticed it until I drove west from the east coast. First I was confused when I stopped at the cheapest gas station I saw somewhere in Nevada, only to discover it was cash/debit ONLY, and I think there was a 35-cent charge for using debit. After that, in California, I started noticing how easy it is to see the cash price when driving by, but you often have to look closely for the credit price.

Re:In praise of cash by wyager on Saturday March 04, 2017 @02:02AM (#13789714)
Technically charging less for cash violates merchant credit card ToSs, so big companies don't do it and small companies don't advertise it. If you're making a big purchase you can just ask.
Re:In praise of cash by icebraining on Saturday March 04, 2017 @09:43AM (#13791071)
I think that TOS clause was overturned by a class action lawsuit: https://consumerist.com/2012/07/13/visa-mastercard-agree-to-...

It seems some states still ban it by law, though.

Re:In praise of cash by giardini on Thursday March 09, 2017 @03:43PM (#13833391)
Just ask! "Do you give a cash discount?"
Re:In praise of cash by huffmsa on Friday March 03, 2017 @01:36PM (#13784981)
Paper trail?

What are you hiding citizen? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Re:In praise of cash by Jemmeh on Friday March 03, 2017 @02:36PM (#13785577)
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -Edward Snowden
Re:In praise of cash by gyey on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:19PM (#13789236)
To be the devil's advocate here, what situation can you imagine that would warrant a person to legitimately hide information or keep secrets from their own government?
Re:In praise of cash by MaulingMonkey on Saturday March 04, 2017 @01:31AM (#13789635)
* Your government isn't a utopia, and thus has corruption

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from your stalker

* Your stalker has friends who work for the government

* Your stalker works for the government

* You're gay, and live in the UAE, where your outing may result in your death

* You're gay, and live in the USA, where your outing may result in your death

* Your government has too many laws to count - nevermind read - and can find a violation of them for anyone, given enough time

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from other governments

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from your competitors

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from identity thieves

Re:In praise of cash by coding123 on Saturday March 04, 2017 @12:51AM (#13789522)
Not everything that is a law should be. Why is marijuana even illegal? Can ANYONE even answer that in the context of alcohol being legal?

So yes, for this any many other reasons, it's good to keep secrets from the government.

By the way, pot is just an example, you can literally dig millions of unjust laws up if you looked, we're all just conditioned to OBEY.

Re:In praise of cash by tomohawk on Saturday March 04, 2017 @11:11AM (#13791456)
Alcohol is involved in a very large number of deaths in the US every year. A very large proportion of suicides, automobile deaths, shooting deaths, diabetes deaths, and so on are directly caused by alcohol consumption.

It's not like we need more people running around with impaired decision making ability.

Re:In praise of cash by eternalban on Saturday March 04, 2017 @11:54AM (#13791668)
Because they have different psychological effects. One makes you think, the other makes you stupid.
Re:In praise of cash by Jemmeh on Monday March 06, 2017 @10:17AM (#13803175)
I actually think this is a great question and I'm glad you asked it because it's such a common response to privacy. It's gotten good responses.

The government is not perfect. It's made of people. People who may be racist, sexist, homophobic, desperate for money, greedy, or corrupt.

- Someone's ex burned them, now they hate everyone of __ gender and go out of their way to dig through information of those people and get them in trouble.

- Someone is anti-LGBTQ+ and uses information to hunt people down and get them killed.

- A racist particularly hates a certain race, and now goes after them in particular for small law breaking things -- jaywalking when no cars are coming, not using their blinker, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. And while those are all crimes, now people of that race are being punished disproportionately.

- Businesses with their hands in the government now have information to use against their competitors and create monopolies

- Limits free speech - can't even discuss things privately.

- Further removal of all freedoms because now you can't get away with anything even if it's a controversial thing such as drugs, sexuality, art/music, and protest.

etc.

Re:In praise of cash by amorphid on Saturday March 04, 2017 @02:35AM (#13789828)
Trust is a two way street. How can you tell me that I have nothing to hide while keep secrets from me?
Re:In praise of cash by Joakal on Saturday March 04, 2017 @12:29AM (#13789464)
Consider that what the government knows could become public due to leaks, changes of government (election, war), third party access, etc.

I certainly do not want my bank passwords to be with the government. My bank accounts can be wiped out. Hence I do not like my communication recorded at all for this reason.

Re:In praise of cash by fian on Monday March 06, 2017 @09:12PM (#13807785)
A bit late to this discussion, but the question of why someone would want to hide information from the government of today is not necessarily the right question.

Governments are not permanent. Significant changes in government can occur through democratic election, revolution, invasion (Ukraine?). Such changes can happen very rapidly. Records can not always be easily purged.

If the incoming government is ideologically opposed to something that you are or you declare (race, religion, political views) and they have a lot of information about you collected by the previous government - then you could very well be in mortal danger.

There are many examples of this in history.

So benign governments should aim to collect the minimum of information required to deliver good service to its citizens. Neither you nor your hopefully benign current government can trust the governments that are to come.

Re:In praise of cash by DavidWanjiru on Saturday March 04, 2017 @08:12AM (#13790751)
The govt is not my girlfriend. Why would I want tell them anything?
Re:In praise of cash by tertius on Saturday March 04, 2017 @05:19PM (#13793209)
Any that could be used to blackmail that person. Think sexual preference.
Re:In praise of cash by lucio on Friday March 03, 2017 @08:03PM (#13788454)
You miss the /s at the end. There are some literal people around here /s
Re:In praise of cash by known on Saturday March 04, 2017 @11:06AM (#13791438)
Privacy != Secrecy
Re:In praise of cash by icantdrive55 on Friday March 03, 2017 @02:10PM (#13785325)
He buys a pack of cigarettes for someone else, and happens to rack up a huge medical bill. The Insurance company might have a reason to disavow him? (Trump and disavow?)

He buys a 12 pack, and his kid steals it, and gets into an accident causing front page news. His kid lies, and says dad gave me the beer. (He is screwed.)

He goes onto physical therapy office. One of the legitimate places that, but sounds weird--like the power of hands--whatever. The wife sees the bill and it always stays in the back of her mind forever.

He buys a pressure cooker, and is suddenly profiled?

He pays out of packet for a CAT scan because he's a hypochondriac, and things he has a brain tumor. He is forced to claim he did have a CAT scan on all those pesky insurance forms. (Happened to me.)

Yea some of these are far fetched, but not being able to buy groceries last nights wasen't. My slick new chipped bank card was not recognized by the machine. I usually carry a c-note, but used it the following week because of bank card problems.

I guess the McCarty Era is not taught in school anymore?

So no--I don't want a paper trail either. Hell Safeway knows my diet better than me. (Yes--different card.)

Re:In praise of cash by a_t48 on Friday March 03, 2017 @11:09PM (#13789199)
The person who you replied to was speaking satirically.
Re:In praise of cash by wolfgke on Friday March 03, 2017 @08:10PM (#13788482)
> I can go weeks without touching cash these days.

Luckily I can still go weeks without touching my EC card these days.