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Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by kafkaesq on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @05:06PM (#13758564)
If you have one candidate who has seen all of this stuff before and can use it directly from memory, and another candidate who has been busy raising kids and has never seen this stuff before, who do you want to hire, all else being equal?

The one who's raised kids† obviously.

As that's approximately 3-4 orders of magnitude more difficult -- and indicative of not only of general character (by itself hugely important), but of the more generalized cognitive skills necessary do to high-quality software development -- than the ability to memorize a bunch of scarcely-used algorithms. Because, you know, all those websites and Big 4 recruiters told you to.

† And, to bend your requirements (which is necessary because you're presenting us with a false dichotomy), has darn well "seen this stuff" not only in college (unless you think they're lying about that degree), but in the 0.5% or so of real-life development work which actually requires you to conceive, analyze, and flawlessly implement some non-trivial (if not outright esoteric) algorithm right there, on the spot.

That is, I don't dispute that these skills have some importance -- just that the current default interview process assigns a ridiculous degree of importance to these skills, way out of proportion to their actual importance in the field. And to the exclusion of other, more generalized skills which are actually way more important, but alas, much harder to measure -- with the current crop of faddish (turn-the-crank) interview techniques, anyway.

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by wiredfool on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @05:27PM (#13758789)
I would say further, that If you are in a position to be implementing some non-trivial algorithm that's not currently in the toolbox, then your best approach is probably to go read a few papers first, and make sure that the algorithm you're looking at has not been surpassed. (Or, perhaps, you just need to dig something up from the '70s. A lot has been forgotten).

Then again, if you can implement Paxos on the first try...

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by Washuu on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @05:34PM (#13758861)
The best personal analogy I can think of for myself. Six or seven years ago I was updating some legacy code coming across an unsalted MD5 hash being used, "Huh, I thought MD5 was becoming obsolete." I did my research to confirm and also to determine what would be the best hashing algorithm to move forward with.

Of course that is not exactly the same as some other problems presented by white board coding.

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by ourmandave on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @05:43PM (#13758939)
I just googled Paxos and I still can't implement it. =(
Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by Joof on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @07:38PM (#13759809)
Try raft. It's the easy version that works most of the time.
Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by tostitos1979 on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @09:29PM (#13760434)
Meh .. I think Paxos is easier than raft. A lot of Raft's complexity is in leader election, getting rid of old leaders, etc. Sad that I have failed Google's whiteboard interview soooo many times that I don't bother returning messages from their recruiters.
Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by david38 on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @09:12PM (#13760340)
Raising kids is a metric of nothing other than having had sex.

Every parent I know is a "great mom or dad" simply because you're not allowed to say people aren't great parents unless they are truly bad.

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by kafkaesq on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @10:14PM (#13760695)
I was referring to the practice of raising kids. Not to participation in one side or the other of the insemination process.
Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by jpttsn on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @05:55PM (#13759027)
Whiteboard programming isn't very relevant to day-to-day programming.

Raising kids is doubtlessly even less relevant.

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by kafkaesq on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @10:17PM (#13760721)
Raising kids is doubtlessly even less relevant.

Right. But if done successfully (or even just satisfactorily -- given how difficult of a job it truly is), at least has some correlation with character, and general cognitive fortitude.

And hence -- unlike the ability to withstand repeating whiteboarding sessions -- has at least some correlation with actual fitness vis-a-vis the role being applied for.

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by dagw on Thursday March 02, 2017 @03:06AM (#13772459)
"So you seem to have the experience we're looking for and our engineers seem impressed with your interview. Just one small final thing, a formality really, could you bring your daughter in tomorrow so we can talk to her and see if she's been brought up right?"

If whiteboard testing is frowned upon, I imagine testing a candidates kids would be doubly frowned upon.

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by kafkaesq on Thursday March 02, 2017 @07:17PM (#13779669)
No worries; I was responding rhetorically to a rhetorical questions. I wasn't suggestion that it actually be used as a hiring filter.
Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by FullMtlAlcoholc on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @09:57PM (#13760581)
> Raising kids is doubtlessly even less relevant.

That's a bit dismissive. From personal experience, if one isn't a complete failure, raising kids to a satisfactory degree would exercise one's managerial and time management muscles, not to mention their ability to work under pressure/sleep deprivation. Parents of infants

Re:Programmers are confessing their sins to protest a broken... by yellowapple on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:29AM (#13761428)
I reckon that'll change significantly as AI grows increasingly advanced and complex.