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Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by gwern on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:25PM (#13718921)
On the other hand, we know that public statements about lawsuits are always a pack of lies as everyone tries to look as wronged as possible: remember YC's bluster about the Cruise co-founder lawsuit, right before they had to settle for dozens/hundreds of millions? or remember the Oculus lawsuit where they alleged almost the exact same thing (Carmack stealing thousands of sooper-sekrit VR documents/files) and wound up only winning on some non-compete stuff and getting only a fixed award which was a fraction of what they thought they'd get?
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by tptacek on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:34PM (#13719535)
Being ultimately required by circumstance to make a substantial payment to settle a lawsuit does not imply that the payer was lying, or even incorrect, in their defense.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by gwern on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:37PM (#13719569)
I think losing a lawsuit is definitely evidence for claims being false just as winning correlates with telling the truth about not doing wrong things, and if it is true that there is no correlation whatsoever between losing a lawsuit and making false claims, then the legal system has failed utterly (and incidentally, you have given me a great idea for a business model).

Given the adversarial nature of the system and the many past comments on HN to take claims by litigants with very large grains of salt when it came to the Oracle or Facebook or Oculus lawsuits, I'm surprised at the apparent credulity on display. Google will huff and puff just as much as anyone else when it comes to lawsuits.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by tptacek on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:42PM (#13719608)
It's evidence, but it's not dispositive, especially in cases like Cruise, where the technicality that determines the outcome might give the defense a 60/40 edge after a court case that will itself cost many millions of dollars.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by DannyBee on Thursday February 23, 2017 @10:48PM (#13720785)
What he said. Particularly in patent and other IP cases, it's often cheaper to settle, even for a lot, than defend the lawsuit. You could say our system has failed utterly You wouldn't be wrong in that case. ....
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by tptacek on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:20AM (#13721234)
I've never been in a situation anything like Cruise, but I've been a founder in an acquisition that went to legal over absent cofounders --- actually, come to think of it, twice, once with me the absent cofounder and once not --- and: I can't imagine any of these cases ever not settling.

Even with no tenable claim at all, the absent cofounder has a gun to your head: a proposed liquidation that pends on a civil suit simply isn't going to close. There are time limits on all of this stuff, and the acquirer is simply going to say "fuck it" and walk if they can't predict when the deal will close. A detail I think people who've never sold a company don't realize is that the legal costs for both sides of a deal that closes uneventfully can get close to 7 figures.

I guess this is valuable information for startup founders. It's also a reason you should run, not walk, from any early-stage business partner that wants to negotiate or complexify vesting. 1 year cliff, 4+ year vest, the way everyone does it, or go start a different company.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by uiri on Thursday February 23, 2017 @11:09PM (#13720919)
The Cruise lawsuit never went to trial. They settled. Neither side had their claims tried in a court of law - which, as you state, should approximate finding the truth.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by sillysaurus3 on Thursday February 23, 2017 @06:34PM (#13718999)
remember YC's bluster about the Cruise co-founder lawsuit, right before they had to settle for dozens/hundreds of millions?

Is this a guess?

http://www.businessinsider.com/car-startup-cruise-settles-le...

A representative for Guillory declined to discuss the settlement amount, but said the terms were "mutually agreeable." As part of the settlement, the parties have both agreed to dismiss their lawsuits.

Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by gwern on Thursday February 23, 2017 @07:35PM (#13719545)
It is an informed guess based on the fact that the settlement involved acknowledging, as the original YC paperwork said, he was a cofounder who owned 50% of a $1b exit. I haven't seen anyone in a hurry to leak claims that the settlement was for a trivial amount, nor did anyone at the time offer any good reasons for thinking that.
Re:Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets by alexc05 on Saturday February 25, 2017 @10:31AM (#13731945)
The oculus settlement I remember was for half a billion http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14474198/oculus-lawsuit-verd...