Boo hoo hoo, why are people so upset by by my edgy taboo-breaking jokes?

The answer is in the question, don't you think?

I'm not sure I really buy his explanation for this anyway. Sure, the various bits of Nazi propaganda that he puts in his videos are framed as being part of jokes, but why choose to put Nazi propaganda in your videos on several different occasions? He at least seems to have some kind of unhealthy obsession with it.

Maybe it's different where you're from, but here in Holland my experience is that typical 'edgy' behavior is pretty much exactly the same as what he did. Growing up, even as far back as primary school, we would do the Hitler salute, quote the man, or make jokes about jews or gas chambers. Other popular edgy topics include loud homophobia, and ironically anal fixation. It was mostly the guys who did this, but it was rampant nonetheless (and IMO not indicative of deep-seated isms).

As an 'adult', I've become less offensive/edgy in part because I just don't care anymore, and in part because I think these kinds of jokes are not worth the potential emotional distress they can cause, nor the fact that they might normalize 'real' racism.

Even so, among my inner circle WW2-themed jokes are still popular, including overt endorsement of the Nazis and gas chamber jokes. As far as I can tell none of us are anti-semites or fascists.

In my experience Sweden is very similar to Holland in our attitudes to WW2 and our sense of humor about it. And if you consider that PewDiePie's audience is significantly younger than he is, it doesn't strike me as suspicious that he'd make repeated edgy pro-nazi jokes, just like pretty much all young men and man-children that I know.

>Growing up, even as far back as primary school, we would do the Hitler salute, quote the man, or make jokes about jews or gas chambers.

If that kind of disgusting behavior has been normalized then it really does need to be called out. Dutch and Swedish culture aren't beyond criticism.

>Other popular edgy topics include loud homophobia, and ironically anal fixation. It was mostly the guys who did this, but it was rampant nonetheless (and IMO not indicative of deep-seated isms).

As a gay person I can tell you that it's not very comforting to know that loudly homophobic people don't consider themselves to be homophobes. You might want to consider the effects of your actions on other people from time to time.

> including overt endorsement of the Nazis and gas chamber jokes. As far as I can tell none of us are anti-semites or fascists.

So your Jewish friends are all laughing along with you at the gas chamber jokes?

edit: I was foolish enough to take the word of you and other posters regarding the wording of the initial WSJ article. In fact, the article does not say that PewDiePie is anti-semitic, and it mentions that he was "joking". So I really have no idea what you guys are complaining about.

Edit: I'll leave the comment for what it is, but after thinking on it a bit I feel that this is not something worth arguing over. While I do think there should be more nuance in these things, the fact of the matter is that PewDiePie acted racist and I do disagree with that. And he doesn't need (or perhaps deserve) random internet people to defend him against other random internet people. I guess I'm just in 'hating the media' mode but that's another discussion best not conflated with an issue such as this one. So my apologies for raising a stink.

> Growing up, as far back as primary school, we would do the Hitler salute, quote the man, or make jokes about jews or gas chambers.

>> If that kind of disgusting behavior has been normalized then it really does need to be called out. Dutch and Swedish culture aren't beyond criticism.

I don't disagree with that at all. I find that the Dutch in particular often seem to value breaking taboos and as a result can be needlessly insulting or hurtful. I'm not a fan.

> Other popular edgy topics include loud homophobia, and ironically anal fixation. It was mostly the guys who did this, but it was rampant nonetheless (and IMO not indicative of deep-seated isms).

>> As a gay person I can tell you that it's not very comforting to know that loudly homophobic people don't consider themselves to be homophobes. You might want to consider the effects of your actions on other people from time to time.

Did you read the part where I changed my ways as I realized the effects such jokes could have? I can't help but feel that you've simply decided that you disagree with me and are now not even bothering to actually read my comments. Or otherwise maybe I've not expressed myself well, in which case I (honestly) apologize.

> including overt endorsement of the Nazis and gas chamber jokes. As far as I can tell none of us are anti-semites or fascists.

>> So your Jewish friends are all laughing along with you at the gas chamber jokes?

Yes, and quite often they're the ones who started it. Furthermore, my (fellow) gay friends make more and harsher 'gay jokes' than my straight friends. But all in the right context.

And again, I'm describing the state of things, not promoting this kind of behavior.

>> edit: I was foolish enough to take the word of you and other posters regarding the wording of the initial WSJ article. In fact, the article does not say that PewDiePie is anti-semitic, and it mentions that he was "joking". So I really have no idea what you guys are complaining about.

I can't speak for other posters, but I was 'complaining' about this:

>> I'm not sure I really buy his explanation for this anyway. Sure, the various bits of Nazi propaganda that he puts in his videos are framed as being part of jokes, but why choose to put Nazi propaganda in your videos on several different occasions? He at least seems to have some kind of unhealthy obsession with it.

You argue that his behavior is not 'normal' (as in, the norm), and then proceed to question the truth of his statement, basically insinuating that he's actually a racist.

I merely wanted to point out that, 1) in my experience as a middle class white guy from Holland, this behavior is rampant and in fact quite 'normal' (as in 'the norm'), and 2) he panders to exactly the age group who is insensitive for its own sake (and dumb enough not to consider any consequences) and responds positively to these immature jokes.

I guess I was just bothered by the fact that people are judging his person instead of his behavior, when in context there's no need to jump to such conclusions, and when in a broader context such polarization doesn't seem the least bit productive to me.

(So just to be clear: my preferred world is one where not a single person is hurt in any way by another person's 'joke', and I'm doing my best to at least make that a reality in my own life.)

>I can't speak for other posters, but I was 'complaining' about this:

No, you started complaining that the WSJ accused PewDiePie of being anti-semitic before I made that comment.

>Yes, and quite often they're the ones who started it. Furthermore, my (fellow) gay friends make more and harsher 'gay jokes' than my straight friends. But all in the right context.

There isn't really a right context for straight people to make homophobic jokes.

It sounds like things are pretty fucked up in Holland, if your account is to believed. Thankfully they aren't quite as fucked up in the part of the world that WSJ journalists are familiar with, which maybe explains the disconnect between your reaction and theirs. I'm British (but have spent ~5 years living in the US), and can say that it's not normal for middle class white guys to make Holocaust jokes or homophobic jokes here either.

>So just to be clear: my preferred world is one where not a single person is hurt in any way by another person's 'joke', and I'm doing my best to at least make that a reality in my own life

So have you stopped making homophobic and anti-semitic jokes and stopped defending other people who do? Your comment is a bit ambiguous on this point.

> Edit: I'll leave the comment for what it is, but after thinking on it a bit I feel that this is not something worth arguing over. While I do think there should be more nuance in these things, the fact of the matter is that PewDiePie acted racist and I do disagree with that. And he doesn't need (or perhaps deserve) random internet people to defend him against other random internet people. I guess I'm just in 'hating the media' mode but that's another discussion best not conflated with an issue such as this one. So my apologies for raising a stink.

It might not seem like something worth arguing over to you as a straight white man, but Jewish people and gay people don't have the same luxury of being able to ignore these issues.

"Not worth arguing over" was in reference to my misguided attempt to distinguish between 'having racist beliefs' and 'acting racist to be edgy'. I feel I went down the wrong path arguing over that. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

So, to be clear: I absolutely agree that these issues are worth arguing over, and that we shouldn't ignore them, and it was good that you challenged me on that.