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Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by MaxLeiter on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:19PM (#13527559)
Completely stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_sur...

This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong.

Uber's Surge system is all automatic--if demand goes way up, and supply doesn't follow suit, prices will increase in the app. Unfortunately, demand goes way up during catastrophes like terror attacks, so Uber has had a few bad instances where, in the wake of a crisis, surge goes up, simply because of the way the system is set up.

People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. To address cases like this, Uber put into place a surge shutoff system so that people in these positions aren't charged extra.

What happened here was that Uber, in the interest of avoiding another PR disaster, turned off surge to allow protesters (identifying with a cause which their CEO has openly supported) to get to the venue without extra charge. This backfired because that wasn't made clear in their announcement, and they instead came off as strike busters because the NYC taxi firms stupidly chose to express solidarity by shutting down the ability of protesters (not to mention uninvolved travelers) to get to and from the airport via their services.

I don't envy Uber--they're in a damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don't position. It's maddening to see the #deleteUber hashtag get this much traction, especially given that Lyft also continued to operate during the strike, but c'est la vie.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:26PM (#13527599)
I don't think the pricing is the extent of people's concerns, or even the majority.

I'm not a fan of Kalanick, personally, but I was prepared to have been wrong about him when I saw his Facebook post about taking care of the drivers who were stranded by this idiocy.

Then, I saw they were taking fares to JFK during the taxi strike — effectively breaking it. To my eyes, and those of many others, that is an ugly repudiation of the gesture.

It was one hour. Having someone on the president's Business Council thing take a public stand like that in solidarity with the very industry he's trying to destroy would have sent a powerful message, and pretty cheaply.

More to the point, turning off surge pricing hours after the strike — that was announced to last one hour — was over is moot.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by jyrkesh on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:44PM (#13527698)
As someone who is only just finding out about all this, I don't fully understand why the cab drivers stopped picking people up. I think the fact that people were using Uber (and Lyft) to leave the airport means they needed to (which is ESPECIALLY if true if surge was in place for some period of time and people still willingly took it). As poetic as they might think it is, taxi drivers not welcoming people into the country is, practically speaking, very similar to the airports not welcoming people into the country.

All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess, maybe with a few kids you've had to endure protecting/managing for a 5-10 hour flight, and the cabs aren't going. I'd be pretty upset at the cabs, even if I stood with the protesters (which I do). (Keep in mind, this would also include people coming from the many other countries not called out in the EO.)

Side note: I think it's crazy how quickly so many different SIGNIFICANT articles are hitting #1 on HN and Reddit. The ban, the judicial pushback, the firing...I think I'm all caught up, I sit down at home, throw open HN, and there's an entire sub-story that went down about cabs, Uber, and Lyft sitting at a new #1. It's all too much for me...

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:51PM (#13527745)
> All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess...

Then imagine how it must feel to be one of the people affected by the ban.

That's the point of the strike: "Oh you think this is inconvenient?"

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by tedunangst on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:18AM (#13527905)
Shouldn't we be angry at the subway too for letting people leave the airport?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:20AM (#13527919)
That's specious. The subway is a utility provided by the city.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by baddox on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:17AM (#13528193)
Taxis, if regulated by the city, are effectively a utility provided partially by the city.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:29AM (#13528254)
Regulation of a private service does not obligate the operators of that service to offer it, unless those regulations specifically require it.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by baddox on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:01AM (#13528405)
Same with public services, right? Some states prohibit strikes, but as far as I know that just means fining the unions. I'm not aware of any US jurisdiction that compels individuals to perform labor (excepting things like military conscription and community service sentences for crimes).
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by moonka on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:20AM (#13528479)
In Seattle the police shut down the light rail to avoid protests. There were no taxi strikes at Seatac though afaik.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by manigandham on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:05AM (#13527836)
When has this strategy ever worked? This is not how you appease or bring about change.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by brenschluss on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:19AM (#13527910)
How do you think the two-day weekend and the forty-hour week was created? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by phil21 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:44AM (#13529137)
By an hour long unplanned "strike" called for with hours worth of notice?

Yeah, didn't think so. This conversation is getting absurd at this point.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:13AM (#13527876)
"Appease"? Whom?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by SomeStupidPoint on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:58AM (#13528396)
When has appeasing ever worked as an instrument of social change?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by manigandham on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:06AM (#13528425)
Perhaps that was the wrong word. "To bring about peace" is the definition I was going for.

Either way, this is not going to solve anything.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:36AM (#13528534)
Go re-read "Letter from a Birmingham Jail". The relevant bit has been quoted elsethread.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by manigandham on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:17AM (#13528719)
If you're talking about civil disobedience, then this taxi strike is not an example and ultimately not of much importance or purpose.

Immigration and customs officials refusing to follow the ban order would be actual disobedience and far more effectual in signal and lives changed.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by brenschluss on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @03:57PM (#13545087)
Civil disobedience is not a zero-sum game, and there are huge network effects in people protesting, striking, etc.

This happens all the time with people unused to protest. "Protests doesn't do anything", "Other things are more efficient", "Their demands are vague", "People should work on making policy instead of protesting", etc.

Network effects, people, network effects.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by manigandham on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @09:57PM (#13547710)
What network effects? Awareness was an issue before the internet but we have instant global news coverage now, so what does this particular strike (which is not civil disobedience) do?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by kelnos on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:14AM (#13528703)
Ironically, if the court order to put a stay on the ban had come in during the strike, it would have made it even harder for those poor people to get home. How's that for "inconvenience"? The strike was a bad plan.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by jaynos on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:45AM (#13530907)
It's not ironic because that didn't happen. I'm sure the strike could have been called off very quickly if that happened.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Kalium on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:55AM (#13528089)
Instead of a gesture, Uber chose to allow immigrants from the countries in question to keep earning money. Uber made it easy for protesters to get around the police blockade of the AirTrain.

There were no ideal options on the table. Joining the strike would have meant hurting a sizable number of immigrants and hurting the protests.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:00AM (#13528112)
Did you miss that the strike was only against picking up fares at the airport?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Kalium on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:15AM (#13528184)
No. I'm just struggling to imagine why anyone thought Uber would join this and why nobody seems to care about Lyft.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by CodeWriter23 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @05:32AM (#13529347)
It's not about joining. It's about Uber intervening by turning off an automated feature of their platform. People are pissed about that. Not me, but people. Me, I'm driving Lyft for a stint and enjoying non-stop ride requests.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by kelnos on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:12AM (#13528696)
What if Uber (and Lyft; by your definition they broke the strike too) didn't agree with the reason for the strike, or found it counterproductive? It's well within their rights to do so (and I'd agree with them). Just because your "transportation brethren" decide to take some action, it doesn't mean you should play lemming and take the same action in solidarity, especially if you think that action is in poor taste, or is harmful.

I mean, c'mon. During the time of the strike, people needed transportation to and from the airport more than ever, given the protesters coming in and out. And hell, if detainees had been able to clear CBP during the strike, the strike would have actively made it harder for those poor people to get home. I'd say the taxi workers union should be ashamed for picking that time to strike.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by 1_2__3 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:07AM (#13531094)
You clearly and literally do not seem to understand how strikes work.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by true_religion on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:35PM (#13527655)
Standing in solidarity by preventing the people who are protesting from getting to and from the protest is inane.

Without the lipservice they paid, I'd have actually believed the taxi union was rallying against the the protesters.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:55PM (#13527775)
If you're going there to protest, take the subway. It's not like you've got luggage or anything. And the work stoppage was only against picking up fares, anyway.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by baby on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:08AM (#13528435)
what can Uber do? They can't update their app just for a strike. Apparently they could turn off a surge and that's what they did.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by danso on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:44PM (#13527699)
I interpreted the disabling of surge to reduce the incentive for drivers to make an extra buck off of the strike. Does Uber have the ability to nullify an area temporarily so that pickups can't be made? I mean, obviously, it's technically possible, as they set up special zones for airports. But I wonder if they have app behavior to handle a situation in which they need to tell users that pickups are temporarily disabled in an area on an impromptu basis.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by prostoalex on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:14AM (#13527882)
They did it when they were negotiating their license with some airports. Back in the days LAX was geo-fenced and you had to take a shuttle to a random hotel to get a pick-up. As soon as their licensing (and proper pick-up spots) were up, LAX went live in the app.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rosser on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:56PM (#13527782)
I have a friend at Uber. We have had conversations involving the word "geofencing".
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by alkonaut on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:34AM (#13528778)
> This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong.

For me it wasn't the bad messaging around the JFK thing, it was that this incident brought focus to the fact that Uber had earlier expressed sympathy for Trump. This is more than enough for me to switch my business to a competitor.

I believe this might have been the case for others too. They had simply been closet Trump supporters in my view, but suddenly they were called out as such.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by debt on Monday January 30, 2017 @11:54PM (#13527770)
How do you know Surge is automatic?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by visarga on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:52AM (#13528068)
> People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case.

They could collect an extra few cents from normal fares and store it to compensate drivers during peak time, without fluctuating the fare price for customers. It would work like insurance, and have the same effect with surge pricing while not generating bad PR.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by bovik on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:18AM (#13528199)
how does that make more drivers come to a specific place/time where demand is outstripping supply?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by visarga on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:19AM (#13529006)
By paying drivers more. Surge pricing would work only for drivers, and be averaged out for customers so they don't see a change in rates. It would encourage more people to use Uber, that are turned off by surge pricing. But maybe Uber doesn't want to have them as clients during surges, depends on the ability to scale to demand.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by hueving on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:39AM (#13528311)
So you make riders that intentionally ride during off times subsidize riders that want to go home during peak times. Pretty lame solution if you ask me.

The thing that I like about dynamic pricing is that it forces people to think about what they are doing in a broader context. "maybe it's selfish of me to expect a $3 ride home at 1AM on Jan 1st"

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by visarga on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:23AM (#13529027)
Yes, if your main concern is to protect Uber against surges, you're right. But customers also perceive this as an attempt to extract more money from them when they are in a bad position, such as during a crisis.

Why not take the "insurance policy" style and average out these surges?

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by hocuspocus on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @05:33AM (#13529357)
If you want regulated prices, why not use taxis?

Being an Uber customer and complaining about surge prices is beyond hypocrite.