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Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by DannyBee on Thursday January 26, 2017 @05:42PM (#13496014)
"The suit accuses Anderson of having tried to recruit away employees from Tesla" ... I hope not, since that's not a thing that's illegal.

Tesla should certainly know that most non-solicits are not enforceable in california (and i only say most because occasionally, one is found valid, but the vast majority are not)

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:16PM (#13496292)
> most non-solicits are not enforceable in California

To clarify:

"Provisions preventing former employees from competing with their former employers by soliciting their customers (absent use of trade secrets) are...void... The law regarding agreements prohibiting an employee from soliciting employees from former employers, however, is far less clear at this point.

...

Provisions that outright bar the hiring of employees are likely to be found unenforceable in many circumstances and should generally be avoided. Where such provisions are used, they should be narrowly tailored, apply only to employees with whom the restrained individual works or becomes aware of during their employment, and/or make any hiring contingent on the payment of fixed sum liquidated damages.

Separately, non-solicitation agreements between employer and employee, like the one at issue in Loral, are likely permissible with the caveat that they should be limited in term and scope. The term of such provisions is typically limited to one or two years, and large employers should consider limiting the scope to employees that the individual worked with and/or became aware of during the individual’s employment."

Regarding Loral:

"The court noted that unlike a no-hire provision, the non-solicitation agreement 'only slightly affects’’ Loral employees, because they were not prevented from seeking employment by contacting [the defendant] – they were only affected insomuch as [the defendant] could not contact them."

TL;DR It sounds like Tesla's ex-employee broke his non-solicit by soliciting employees he worked with at Tesla.

http://www.jonesday.com/files/Publication/49d21da6-33cb-45ff...

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by dsp1234 on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:24PM (#13496355)
TL;DR It sounds like Tesla's ex-employee broke his non-solicit by soliciting employees he worked with at Tesla.

The complaint is clear. This is about more than non-solicitation, and Anderson was not an ex-employee at the time.

From the complaint:

"Anderson worked to recruit Tesla's engineers, eventually making offers to at least a dozen people — all in direct violation of his contractual non-solicitation obligations and the duty of loyalty that he owed to Tesla as an employee."

This is about breach of duty of loyalty, and interference with contracts.

edit: phrasing

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by the_watcher on Thursday January 26, 2017 @07:42PM (#13496796)
Wait, is there a legal concept of "duty of loyalty" outside of fiduciary relationships? That's the first I've heard the term in that context. Or did Anderson have a fiduciary relationship with Tesla?
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by djrogers on Thursday January 26, 2017 @08:14PM (#13496931)
Yes there is. In California it's governed by the Labor Code:

Section 2863 states, “An employee who has any business to transact on his own account, similar to that entrusted to him by his employer, shall always give the preference to the business of the employer.”

There are other aspects to it as well, but that's the nut.

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by the_watcher on Friday January 27, 2017 @02:28PM (#13501936)
Ah, thanks. And yea, the TC piece didn't make it clear to me that the crux of the issue was Anderson's current employment while poaching.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by the_watcher on Thursday January 26, 2017 @07:41PM (#13496791)
Got it, that's helpful. So basically, you can't prevent a former employee from hiring your employees, but you can limit the extent to which the former employee can proactively recruit your employees, so long as the terms of the agreement are limited and well defined?
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by AstralStorm on Friday January 27, 2017 @03:34AM (#13498492)
You cannot prevent a former anyone except in many states of US via non-compete agreements. (not in california)

Non-soliciting agreement is a separate matter untested in court.

However, he was an employee at the time of soliciting, making it a very different matter. Directly prohibited by california work code.

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by marme on Thursday January 26, 2017 @08:53PM (#13497112)
so if someone leaves and starts their own company you can prevent them from actively recruiting former coworkers but you cant prevent them from hiring former coworkers who went to join them on their own without any active solicitation from the former employee, basically if the current employee contacts the former employee first then it is ok but contract forbidding the former employee from contacting current employees to recruit them is allowed. Also contract forbidding the active recruitment of current employees that the former employee never met are not enforceable so you cant forbid recruiting employees who joined after you left the company
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by lbatx on Thursday January 26, 2017 @11:33PM (#13497733)
> I hope not, since that's not a thing that's illegal.

It doesn't have to be illegal to be a valid point in a civil suit. Things that are legal can be prohibited by contract.

Whether it's illegal or not is irrelevant.

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by ocdtrekkie on Thursday January 26, 2017 @05:46PM (#13496048)
From my understanding, a key point in the lawsuit was that he was still working for Tesla when he was recruiting people for his new job.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by kirykl on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:01PM (#13496178)
That would be the key. Breach of fiduciary duty
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by dsp1234 on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:19PM (#13496315)
from the complaint[0]:

"While still employed by Tesla, and while assuring management of his loyalty, Anderson secretly set out to hire Tesla's Autopilot engineers for his own competing venture"

[0] - https://cmportal.scscourt.org/Portal/DocumentViewer/Index/dU...

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by the_watcher on Thursday January 26, 2017 @07:44PM (#13496809)
Ah, there it is. Not made as clear as it could be by TechCrunch. Even in the most generous reading of anti-non-solicitation agreement law would probably uphold a restriction on doing it while employed.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by kylec on Thursday January 26, 2017 @05:46PM (#13496049)
Even if the lawsuit is without merit, Tesla still wins because future former employees will be more reluctant to try and recruit their former coworkers if they know Tesla will sue them for it.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by cynix on Thursday January 26, 2017 @05:57PM (#13496157)
Not if they know Tesla will lose such lawsuits.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by Operyl on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:01PM (#13496181)
At the same time, though, fighting a lawsuit is death to most startups. It'd still have the same consequences, even if Tesla loses here.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by kylec on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:46PM (#13496494)
It would be a huge stress and inconvenience if a company sued me, even if I eventually won or the suit was thrown out. I'd have to find a lawyer, deal with the company's lawyers, show up in court, etc. That alone is enough of a deterrent for a lot of people.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by madebysquares on Thursday January 26, 2017 @05:47PM (#13496057)
Unless he signed a 365 day non-compete which is fairly standard. In which case he would be in breach of contract.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by gozur88 on Thursday January 26, 2017 @05:55PM (#13496134)
Those things are pretty much unenforcable in California.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by praneshp on Thursday January 26, 2017 @05:59PM (#13496165)
Are you sure? The non-competes about working for a competitor is un-enforceable, but what about the ones that ban directly approaching former colleagues?
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by gozur88 on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:37PM (#13496441)
As ocdtrekkie pointed out, the key point here is he was soliciting former colleagues while there were still current colleagues. Even California won't protect you there.

The one tool companies have at their disposal in CA is the prohibition of using your old company's trade secrets in your new job. Mostly that means you can't take customer lists with you, but you also can't use confidential information to lure away former colleagues.

What that means in practice isn't completely clear to me, though it may just be that you can't take the org chart.

EDIT: http://www.rhdtlaw.com/job-hopping-california-right/

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by the_watcher on Thursday January 26, 2017 @07:46PM (#13496821)
A non-compete is a different agreement than a non-solicitation agreement. The former is categorically unenforceable in California. The latter is much more of a gray area and dependent on circumstances.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by pfarnsworth on Thursday January 26, 2017 @08:33PM (#13497032)
That isn't a non-compete. That's a non-solicitation, which is enforceable, at least civilly.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by bsder on Friday January 27, 2017 @12:59AM (#13498059)
Not always.

Very high senior management have been held to a non-compete if it is very specific and time-limited.

Self-driving is quite specific right now. So, if they limited it to a year, it would probably work.

However, the issue here is things he did while still working at Tesla, not after.

Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by tew28 on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:08PM (#13496229)
The provision is actually a non-solicitation provision, which often goes hand-in-hand with a non-compete.
Re:Tesla sues ex-Autopilot director for taking proprietary i... by pfarnsworth on Thursday January 26, 2017 @08:34PM (#13497037)
Not in California. You can't enforce a non-compete but you can a non-solicitation.