Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol

Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by kabdib on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:12AM (#13488938)

I keep hearing this about Glocks. While kind-of true (if you're not prepared to shoot something, why is your finger in the trigger guard?) I also believe in safety-in-depth, so my first pistol was a revolver (very heavy trigger pull, hard to make a mistake), and my second was an HK USP with a positive safety.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Glock 19 and 26, they're great. But I wouldn't recommend them as first pistols. There's a hell of a lot going on in an autoloader, and another level of "this thing won't go off" is pretty reassuring in the beginning.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by gcb0 on Thursday January 26, 2017 @02:26AM (#13489409)

you really think safety toggles are to protect against fingers?!?

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:31AM (#13489004)

Considering the number of trained LEOs who have given themselves Glock foot it can't be seriously considered as a service weapon.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by dsfyu404ed on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:48AM (#13489056)

Yeah, but the way a typical city PD discharges firearms makes the Mujahadeen look like professionals. The armed forces are much better at things like not having negligent discharges and, shooting what they're aiming for and finding a reason to shoot before opening fire. The police might not be able to handle a gun without five redundant safeties but a 18yo in a combat situation with a few months of training and an incentive to do their job seems to manage just fine.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by gingerbread-man on Thursday January 26, 2017 @03:41AM (#13489752)

The almost-ubiquitous Blackhawk SERPA retention holsters are a big contributor to this. The button you have to press to release the weapon from its holster makes it all too easy to hit the trigger before you intend to.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by PhantomGremlin on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:25AM (#13489173)

the number of trained LEOs who have given themselves Glock foot

Here's a youtube video of exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-jTCNZSmY

As one of the comments said: "Just another example of a police officer shooting a black man for no reason."

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by gingerbread-man on Thursday January 26, 2017 @03:42AM (#13489754)

For a sidearm that you're going to leave in its holster until you intend to use it, the holster's retention mechanism sort of takes the place of a rifle's manual safety.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by bnolsen on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:08AM (#13488919)

or for conceal carry...don't catch your shirt on the trigger...

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by general_ai on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:25AM (#13488989)

Glocks have triggers that are pretty heavy, and you don't have to carry with a round in the chamber unless you're in _really_ bad places. Safety has its own issues: what if you don't completely disengage it or forget to do it at all? What if you forget to engage it and do something stupid because you thought your gun was on safety?

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by easychewie on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:35AM (#13489209)

Dude. I've been daily carrying a Glock since 2006, never had a negligent discharge.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by Uhhrrr on Thursday January 26, 2017 @02:51AM (#13489530)

Survivor bias - someone who has is less likely to post.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by easychewie on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:17PM (#13493764)

You can't just say "survivor bias" and think you have a solid argument. Let's examine your objection more critically.

I mentioned I'd carried every day since 2006. Suppose this isn't quite true, and I've only carried 330 days per year (this is too low, but still). Further, we just started 2017, and I started carrying in August 2006. This means I've carried roughly 3,437 days. If my carrying a Glock on any given day is as high as 99.9% safe (i.e., I have a 0.01% chance of a negligent discharge), then I should have a "survival" probability of only 3.2%. If my daily safety probability drops to only 99.7%, my probability of getting to now with no ND is 0.0%. Decreasing my daily safety probability to only 99% means my probability of no ND is 9.95e-14.

Now think about what this means. Either:

1. Carrying a Glock is very unsafe, and I'm incredibly lucky. In this case your claim of survivor bias would be warranted (assuming there weren't many others like me, which there are).

2. Carrying a Glock is very safe, and the chances of an ND are substantially less than 0.01% per day, in which case the charge of survivor bias is unwarranted.

It strikes me that #2 is the clear winner here.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by areyousure on Thursday January 26, 2017 @02:24PM (#13494409)

I think the main thing you've demonstrated with your calculations is that a 0.01% chance of negligent discharge per day is in fact rather unsafe. In particular, a 0.01% chance of discharging per day means that with daily carry for two years, you are more likely to have experienced a negligent discharge than not.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by areyousure on Thursday January 26, 2017 @06:57PM (#13496571)

Sadly, this comment of mine is incorrect. I meant 0.1%. My error comes from the same error in the comment I was responding to:

> 99.9% safe (i.e., I have a 0.01% chance of a negligent discharge)

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by easychewie on Thursday January 26, 2017 @02:55PM (#13494719)

Agreed! Which is why I stated that I think scenario #2 is the correct one, and we don't in fact have a legitimate case of survivor bias. Remember, this discussion began when I said I do it safely. The charge was made that this is survivor bias. By putting numbers to it, I think it becomes clear that the determining factor is not my bias but real, quantifiable safety.

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by RyJones on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:12AM (#13489130)

Who carries without a holster?

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by PhantomGremlin on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:29AM (#13489183)

Both Jules and Vincent. Don't movies reflect real life?

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Re:Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service... by RyJones on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:38AM (#13489222)

Plaxico Burress as well. I did notice the little things in Europe, though; that part of the movie reflected reality.

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