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Re:The struggle with Rust by rubber_duck on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @08:27AM (#13471110)
Yes but going from one to the other is relatively straightforward and possible in small steps of progression - Rust forces you to deal with a lot of things up front which is why people complain. eg. if you're a C++ developer you'll pick up Java very fast, it will take a while to be super productive but you can start working really fast.
Re:The struggle with Rust by the_af on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @09:39AM (#13471602)
That's because a lot of things (let's not debate exactly how many here) translate well between C++ and Java. But my point wasn't about going between relatively similar languages; it was about learning something radically different for the first time, like it was when you learned your first programming language.
Re:The struggle with Rust by rubber_duck on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @10:09AM (#13471873)
But that's not going to work in practice - there are many skilled C++ devs and C++ has many ingrained legacy issues which another systems programming language could solve - but the bridge between that language and C++ must exist for this to happen. Like in the post, OP is a competent programmer - he can solve his problem in C++ - why would he invest months in to Rust to do the same thing ? If your answer is safety then OK that will matter to some but a lot of people don't care enough about it to pay the cost of switching.
Re:The struggle with Rust by the_af on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @10:40AM (#13472180)
Safety and correctness are big deals. I get that for many people they aren't a high priority. Such is life.

If someone thinks they won't gain anything by going from C++ to Rust, then no effort to learn it will be worth it. Obviously the Rust devs think there is a benefit.

Re:The struggle with Rust by cillian64 on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @08:35AM (#13471148)
C++ and Java are a bad example as they are unusually similar. Consider moving between C++, Python, and Javascript: on that scale, Rust doesn't seem so far out.
Re:The struggle with Rust by rubber_duck on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @08:45AM (#13471206)
>Consider moving between C++, Python, and Javascript

I think those will be trivial in that direction, harder in other - but that's not even relevant. I think if Rust aims to occupy C++ domain then it needs to be very easy to get C++ developers on board - and from what I've seen so far it's not quite the case. I'm not sure what can be done about it tho - maybe emphasize unsafe is not a dirty word but a valid approach when doing low level data structure stuff like OP ? Create an unsafe version -> refactor to safe as you're sure it does what you expect and you learn more about borrow checker instead of having to absorb it all at once.

Re:The struggle with Rust by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @08:55AM (#13471265)
I doubt moving from Java to C++ would be that trivial, Java is a comparatively safe language without many of the issues that will trip you up in C++.
Re:The struggle with Rust by Bartweiss on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @10:21AM (#13472000)
From personal experience, it's not that bad. C++ is "Java plus you need to worry about these other things", and it pays off in power and speed. They're not so similar in safety/scope terms, but the structure and design have enough in common that you get plenty of spare brainpower to worry about managing C++.

It was, for instance, a way more natural transition than "Java and C++ to OCaml". Less educational, but as usual that trades against easy.

Re:The struggle with Rust by yellowapple on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @11:48AM (#13472994)
In particular, the lack of pointers in Java would probably annoy the article author as much as Rust does.
Re:The struggle with Rust by AstralStorm on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:50AM (#13479834)
Personally (not the author) I am more annoyed by the gutted single inheritance no traits type system.

You have numeric pointers into arrays, they're called indices.