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Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by derefr on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:33PM (#13466783)
This makes me wonder what the modern world would look like if all "recreational drugs" suddenly disappeared, and so all the people who were implicitly, unknowingly self-medicating for a mental illness by using recreational drugs, suddenly weren't. What percentage of the population would go from seemingly neurotypical, to perceivably mentally ill? How much more common would conditions like schizophrenia be?
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by pizza on Monday January 23, 2017 @11:58PM (#13468919)
The older I get, the more "neurotypical" becomes synonymous for capitalism-compatible.

No matter the size of your parachute/coping mechanism, if you fall on Jupiter, it's not the (decelerated) fall that kills you, it's the jostling torture of simultaneously hitting fluid from under you, and being crushed by the weight of fluid above.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by tritosomal on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @12:48AM (#13469104)
I'm inclined to agree with you. ADHD seems to be simply a code word for prescribing amphetamines to people who are confronted by the genuinely boring reality of sitting in the same room with the same people who do nothing and go nowhere for years on end.

Unfortunately other economies and models of social order demand similarly horrific obedience, and capitalism is not alone. It's just the thing we got stuck with.

Feels like a prison on both sides of the bars.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by derefr on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @02:34AM (#13469506)
> ADHD seems to be simply a code word for prescribing amphetamines to people who are confronted by the genuinely boring reality of sitting in the same room with the same people who do nothing and go nowhere for years on end.

No. I have ADHD. The most obvious symptom has nothing to do with "being bored"—it's that I can't gather the motivation to practice any skill that I'm not already naturally good at, even when I really really want to be good at that skill. Similarly, I can't take care of pets, or even plants; I can't be anywhere on time; and I forget at least one thing I absolutely need to bring with me every time I leave the house. (Also, I'm absolutely never able to decide where to go to eat, rather than only unable to do so when worn out from work.)

Just as a clinically depressed person will still experience subjectively negative qualia even in a perfect world, a person with ADHD will be unable to remain focused on working toward even what they would subjectively consider the most wonderfully worthwhile goals.

ADHD medication allows me (that is, the part of my brain that holds my sense of identity) to take control of what "I" (that is, the part of my brain that decides whether things are worth doing right now) want to do with my life. If I (brain piece #1) am the rider of an extremely petulant horse (brain piece #2), the medication is a spur on the boot of #1, by which #2 can be brought to heel.

(Now, my case is probably unusual: I went to a psychiatrist after taking an ADHD self-assessment as an adult, rather than being diagnosed as a child. But I assure you that there is at least a core group of people within the "diagnosed with ADHD" group who, like me, consider their ADHD a thing they suffer from just as much as clinical depression is for those who have it, and would find it just as much of an obstacle to enjoying their lives even if they lived alone in a cabin in the woods.)

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by tritosomal on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @08:51PM (#13477732)
Dude.

  I can't gather the motivation to practice any 
  skill that I'm not already naturally good at, 
  even when I really really want to be good at 
  that skill. 
Symptom of the universe. Most people really want to be good at things, but just flop through life like a fish out of water. The world is mostly like this.

  Similarly, I can't take care of pets, or even 
  plants; 
Yeah. That's normal! I have chit chatted with so many pet owning city dwellers who have explained to me how stressful having a dog is, to the point of taking valium. My mom killed plants regularly throughout my childhood, and still does. It's a hobby. That's how it works.

  I can't be anywhere on time; 
No one can. It's not a disease. Punctuality is actually hard. It requires serious dedication. That's why it garners high degrees of respect.

  and I forget at least one thing I absolutely 
  need to bring with me every time I leave the 
  house.
Yes. Normal. So normal, that stand up comedians earn millions of dollars helping people realize how normal that is. People don't laugh at those jokes because they're fraught with bizarre and alien concepts.

Meanwhile, the relief you describe is the very premise of stimulant addiction. Stimulants make people feel like capable superheroes on the up, and miserable incompetant failures on the comedown.

That is how speed works. That's why people like it. You don't have a disability. You just like speed. Everyone likes speed. Lab animals like speed, and they have no social obligations.

If you ever learned how to cook meth, while taking your meds, you'd probably never come back.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by youareterrible on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:04AM (#13481402)
Glad the internet doctor could chime in and try their hardest to shame someone after they just emotionally opened up about their personal struggles in a relevant open forum.

You come off like you carry a grudge!

"Man up snowflake, life is tough."

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by tritosomal on Thursday January 26, 2017 @03:13AM (#13489634)

  *WHOOP* *WHOOP* Pull over, shame police!
Not quite. Try again.

From 1990 forward I watched a trend of chemical leashes swallow up perfectly normal kids, to test subordination to parent/teacher/doctor control and extract bragging rights while keeping up with the Joneses. Loads of high school classmates got shamed by their parents into "just say no" prescription drug doublespeak, because B+ just isn't good enough.

Before there was the prescription opioid pill crisis, there was the prescription pep pill crisis, masquerading as the "you are mentally ill and need a chemical crutch to be normal" crisis. I didn't start that trend. I didn't invent it. I didn't make money off it.

Point your shame finger at the real enemy, if you can guess where to find it.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by rudolf0 on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @10:15AM (#13471924)
Not saying amphetamine is necessary the best solution, but ADHD is a real and debilitating condition for a lot of people across all ages.

It's not just "being bored"; it creates serious difficulty in day-to-day and long-term functioning.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by tritosomal on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @08:55PM (#13477752)

  it creates serious difficulty in day-to-day 
  and long-term functioning.
No. Wrong. The world is the problem. Human expectations of sky-high social norms is the problem.

Being a worker bot is not the benchmark of normalcy. It's simply the burden we are saddled with by others.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by jMyles on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:46PM (#13466886)
Although the answer to this question is mostly unknowable, I think that, as an inquiry, it represents a far more compelling approach to mental health than the current system, for at least two reasons:

1) The current approach completely disregards the data point of, "which psychoactives have worked for you (and presumably, those similarly situated to you) in the past?" This seems so absolutely reckless it's amazing it continues.

2) The current approach regards some portion of the population as "normal," and attempts to treat the rest. By looking instead at diet (ie, "self-medicating") as a spectrum, along which a great many healthy approaches lie, we respect and leverage the underlying psychological diversity of the population.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by abandonliberty on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:48PM (#13466908)
The effect on the underlying conditions are relatively small - otherwise we would have noticed that nicotine is a cure for schizophrenia.

So the addicted will get slightly improvements from their drug. Some of them enough to reduce their chance of a clinical diagnosis.

Most people won't be close enough to (the very blurry) line to swap between diagnosed and subclinical.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by anigbrowl on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:15PM (#13467140)
Well we might have noticed it a lot earlier if psychiatrists did a better job of listening to their patients instead of scribbling a prescription and telling them to come back in 3 months. My last psychiatrist is regarded as one of the leading researchers in his sub-specialty and did very little to earn the $500/hour I was paying him.

Your comment assumes the psychiatric profession is generally meretricious and evidence-driven. Many psychiatric patients' experience suggests otherwise.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by abandonliberty on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @01:37AM (#13469276)
Sorry to hear about your psychiatrist. I suspect this falls into the university trap: "Great" professors are in fact great researchers; there's comparatively little reward in being a great teacher (or listener to your patients).

Hmm perhaps also because smoking behavior probably doesn't change much without accompanying lifestyle changes and confounding factors.

Still we didn't have schizophrenics who happened to pick up smoking and were completely cured, right? (right?) So the magnitude of effect is helpful, but not curative.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by wryun on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @01:36AM (#13469274)
You might want to look up the meaning of meretricious :)
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by seizethecheese on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:43PM (#13466860)
Alcohol: Anxiety disorders

Marijuana: OCD

Caffeine: ADHD

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by shermanyo on Monday January 23, 2017 @07:12PM (#13467612)
I think people are dismissing / overlooking your comment, but I've seen exactly this time and time again.

Anecdotally: I developed a drinking problem in my first few years of work, which I used to deal with anxiety and depression as I failed to find my feet and seriously questioned dropping out of software development.

I was eventually diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive) and through treatment, experienced a complete life change.

I stopped drinking excessively, then almost completely. I never tried to address the problem directly, I just lost any desire to drink outside of a normal social context. Even then, I rarely have more than 2-3 in a night.

I'm on stimulants for treatment, but take breaks some weekends and over holidays. I've always been a coffee drinker, but now I'm conscious of how much I'm drawn to it for the positive effects I see.

I honestly think it was the only reason I got through university (before diagnosed / treated for ADHD). I was using caffeine in the same way I use my current medication, to fill the same gaps.

I don't want to comment on the effectiveness of self medication, or anything diagnosis related. I just find it interesting the correlation between certain personality types and the class of drugs they seem to be drawn to. I think it offers a lot of psychological insight we haven't really looked at in detail.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by md224 on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:57PM (#13466998)
Everyone taking opiates would be depressed but nobody would be sure if it was pre-existing depression or Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome.

In general, it can sometimes be difficult to differentiate drug withdrawal from re-emergence of a pre-existing condition.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by wutbrodo on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:50PM (#13466931)
My understanding is that the association between marijuana use and anxiety is way way higher than between alcohol and anxiety
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by md224 on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:06PM (#13467079)
I think the idea is that if people didn't have access to alcohol, many of them would realize they have no good way to calm their nerves, and therefore realize they have anxiety issues.
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by wutbrodo on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:46PM (#13468398)
I know, and I'm saying that's more so the case for marijuana than alcohol. I've been smoking weed recreationally since college and still enjoy doing so, but the only time Ive done it more than once a week for an extended period of time was during an inordinately stressful time at work a few years ago (right before I ended up quitting and taking a sabbatical to travel). Alcohol is ubiquitous and easy to get, so it's by far the most common for self-medicating many things, but in the hypothetical we're talking about availability isn't relevant.
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by losteric on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:45PM (#13466882)
Or just MJ for everything
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by arca_vorago on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:14PM (#13467134)
My thought as well, but it's worth it to keep in mind young people probably shouldnt, along with those predisposed to schizophrenia and similar disorders, though I suspect certain strains or alternative cannabanoids out of the hundreds in addition to thc/cbd might be useful.
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by tsomctl on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:12PM (#13467121)
If you can recommend a strain that helps with ADHD while still allowing you to be alert and cognizant, I would really like to know. I've been looking for years.
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by losteric on Monday January 23, 2017 @08:22PM (#13468023)
https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/best-cannabis-s...

I have had the most success with vaping green crack at 210C. Oil concentrates also work, but I tend to overshoot the functional sweet spot and end up recreationally high.

Smoking was much harder to nail down. It worked occasionally, enough to justify buying the vape... But the vape is way better.

Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by anigbrowl on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:23PM (#13467219)
I have had some success with 'blueberry' indica strains (named for their fragrant characteristics I believe). I can be incredibly productive with this in the right environment (quiet, minimal interruptions, physically comfortable). But it's harder to shift focus and social interaction (even with intimates) is more of a chore. I don't know that it helps with adhd so much as alleviating anxiety enough to let me focus on what I want to think about.
Re:Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key ... by rikelmens on Monday January 23, 2017 @07:51PM (#13467873)
Try TrueOG.