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Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by nextos on Monday January 23, 2017 @02:21PM (#13465049)
Frankly, I can't understand how Google is so chaotic. Perhaps it's the organization, which looks more like a conglomerate than a cohesive corporation with a clear vision.

They release products, only to abandon many of them without a clear reason (like Google Talk). Or they release two products that should be one instead (Android & ChromeOS, or Allo & Duo).

The Google Talk fiasco got me particularly disenchanted. A beautiful, open, standards-compliant product (they even helped extending XMPP with Jingle!) gets replaced by a proprietary mess like Hangouts.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by fh973 on Monday January 23, 2017 @04:17PM (#13466131)
It's the promotion system. People are incentivized to work 2y on a project, launch, get promoted, move on.

Coupled with no clear strategy other than "we need the next toothbrush" you get what you see.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by will_pseudonym on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @12:53AM (#13469125)
"I think we could get them to brush their tongues."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brU_Pp-20g0

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by blakesterz on Monday January 23, 2017 @04:35PM (#13466262)
>> Frankly, I can't understand how Google is so chaotic.

I'd love an open and honest answer from someone up high in the org chart at Google on that. Better yet, just an acknowledgement of it and how they're going to stop doing this in the future. If they were a startup with 200 employees under the age of 30 I'd understand it, but they're obviously waaaaay beyond that stage.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by saurik on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:38PM (#13466826)
Hell, at this point I would settle for some closure on "what the hell did you mean by 'more wood behind fewer arrows' in 2011 when you began the process of mass project shutdown?!... that's not really how arrows work :/".
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by Infernal on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:46PM (#13468399)
More wood = bigger bow. Shoot fewer arrows harder, i.e. more resources behind fewer projects, i.e. quality over quantity.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by saurik on Monday January 23, 2017 @11:09PM (#13468736)
THANK YOU! All of the other explanations I'd come across have thought they meant to shoot fewer, but heavier, arrows :/.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by yborg on Monday January 23, 2017 @10:09PM (#13468504)
The real problem seems to be inability to aim. Google fired a ballista at Facebook with G+ and missed completely.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by thewhitetulip on Monday January 23, 2017 @11:53PM (#13468904)
I read an essay on HN few weeks ago which said that the problem with G+ was that the higher mgmt at Google thought FB is famous because of a nicely designed product (rather than network effect), so they released a good product G+, it is somewhat a good product but it missed the train. Plus it has circles, it isn't intuitive.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by soylentcola on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @08:29AM (#13471120)
I actually like G+ in principle. They already had the option to create a basic profile for your Google account which was good for those of us who already used Gmail, Docs, Calendar, Maps, etc. from them. I think they figured they had all of the pieces to make a "better Facebook" and compete in that space, but as you say, network effects are strong.

I know a ton of people who set up a G+ profile and I found both the web version and mobile app to be superior to Facebook's offering. Plus they had better image hosting and they had good text/video chat before FB updated theirs.

But in the end it comes down to critical mass of users (and particularly, non-early-adopters) on Facebook. You might get your other peers to try out a new service if you're into trying out new sites/services but unless you get everyone to make (and use) a profile the way most people seem to at least have a Facebook account, you're stuck maintaining two profiles on two sites and switching between them depending on who you want to share that update or photo or link with.

In the end it didn't matter if they had a modestly better site or mobile app because nobody wanted to post to two sites. And since, unlike email, these things don't operate on any sort of standard protocol, you can't just switch your client and let grandma keep using her old one so it fizzled as a FB competitor.

(I still use it for several niche interest groups though. Also I think circles are vastly superior to whatever Facebook has for granular control of who you share something with.)

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by thewhitetulip on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:09AM (#13488931)
Even I love G+ on principle, but that's the point, in principle. The problem with G+ goes deep, first of all, they just assumed that a network gets traction because of beautiful UI, it is not the case, if you look at facebook's growth, it started as a way to talk and later as a dev platform, because of farmville and games like that they get a lot of traffic, so essentially facebook means different things to different people.

When fb came into existence there wasn't much of a competitor to it, so they focused on making it easy to use and stuff, later, when g+ was being created they misread the entire picture. At that point fb had become a platform or was becoming a platform. Currently, FB has different users, some use it as a buy sell group, some for messenger, some for playing games (APIs) etc

g+ didn't focus on good things, just beautiful UI doesn't mean you win, you have to differentiate yourself, they should have gone this way, start a private beta, build a terrific API for developers, so devs will flock to your platform and build apps on it, plus the circles stuff, it is great for geeks like us, but not so much for my grandma, who doesn't even know what google means. Plus, g+ takes an awfully large amount of time to load on slow network. Overall. Plus they don't have an end vision.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by rosege on Monday January 23, 2017 @10:50PM (#13468677)
Yeah the smart thing would have been to acknowledge that you arent FB and dont need to be FB and to focus on areas that are underserved rather than trying to semi repeat what they have done
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by wutbrodo on Monday January 23, 2017 @08:51PM (#13468164)
People high up are aware of it; nobody seems competent enough (at management) to do anything about it.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by tornadoboy55 on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:38PM (#13468367)
They don't care. You as a user (for Google) ain't a customer, you're the product. This is most starkly clear in their customer service. Most of their free products don't even have one and refer to the Google forums. Meanwhile AdWords, AdSense etc. customer service is top notch.

What pisses me off most is that there is no clear alternative if you want to keep your data portable between multiple brands/devices. Microsoft often works poorly. Apple only works on Apple. The alternative is a hodgepodge of services (SimpleNote, HERE maps, EverNote, etc) that requires tons of accounts.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by wutbrodo on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:42PM (#13468382)
You underestimate how stultifying size can be. When I was at Google, pretty much everyone cared about how the internal incentives were screwed up. There were a lot of attempts at changing structure of promotion and career development, but nobody knows how to do it. To be fair, I'm not aware of any entities of that size who don't have the same problem of with balancing the need for centralization with keeping bright workers motivated and growing.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by tornadoboy55 on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @05:21PM (#13486809)
Why not just place a product manager above each product (Gmail, YouTube, Play Music, etc. etc.) that each report to the master manager who's only job is basically to unify all the services and make them work together in a nice way. He would be the one to force everyone to use the same animations, same icons, same conventions etc.. honestly I never understand how companies with millions of dollars can't come up with the simple fix of 'give an experienced person total authority'.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by drdeadringer on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @03:07AM (#13469623)
People lower down are aware of it too. It's bonkers.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by WorldMaker on Monday January 23, 2017 @03:15PM (#13465549)
The one-two punch of killing Google Talk and Google Reader in quick succession really hurt my confidence in Google. (Wave too, to a lesser extent.)
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by Already__Taken on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @03:59AM (#13469817)
Wave I still miss. It was like it didn't go gangbusters straight away so google binned it off. Any it only didn't work because of the stupid JS hijacked chat scroller, where was its promise as a new chat protocol.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by WorldMaker on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @11:06AM (#13472443)
I've said before that there is probably an interesting alternate universe out there was G+ was built on top of Talk, Reader, and Wave instead of replacing those three. They really did throw out several babies in trying to throw out their over-silo-ed bathwater. One can only imagine the world in which the UX work applied to the G+ walled garden Facebook clone effort had instead been used to polish (a federation-capable) Wave and make it a consumer friendly product...
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by megablast on Monday January 23, 2017 @04:45PM (#13466351)
Stupid theory: It is fun working on projects, it is not fun supporting projects.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by taneq on Monday January 23, 2017 @08:38PM (#13468102)
Putting together what a bunch of different people have said, it's not just this (although it's this too). It's that you get promoted by producing a high profile, popular product. After which you've been promoted and you're working on something else, and so the product you got promoted for gets neglected, languishes for a bit and then dies.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by pokemongoaway on Monday January 23, 2017 @07:10PM (#13467600)
The problem with this idea is that once the project becomes a product or services of Google's, then it is supported by official paid working hours of its employees.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by em3rgent0rdr on Monday January 23, 2017 @03:10PM (#13465501)
This: "they release two products that should be one instead (Android & ChromeOS)"... I've been thinking the same exact thing. Google basically split the ecosystem in half...devs have to unnecessary build seperate apps for each (unless they are using a cross platform engine).
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by ramses0 on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:28PM (#13468328)
Not really... chromeos is the bare minimum linux environment to run a chrome browser on laptop hardware. Android is some frankenstein of java IDE to develop phone software.

They might-should-be the same, but they're fundamentally very different roots.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by xyzzy_plugh on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @12:43AM (#13469086)
I'm going to take a slightly controversial point of view and say: Android should have been ported to chromeos.

Newer phones should've shipped with the ping-pong update system, and the secure permissions system that permeates Linux.

Instead we're left with, what is really 75% a hack, Android. The update system sucks. The "recompiling" of app sucks. The permissions system sucks. The bloat really sucks. I am pretty sure my Nexus One was more responsive than my last Nexus phone, or any of the competition (which also, despite Google's best (awful) efforts have deviated in user experience greatly).

Google, once a golden god of the entire computer/software industry has fallen so far. It's really depressing. I wonder if it is even possible for a business to succeed the way Google used to and be profitable.

It's only a matter of time before someone eats their lunch, just the same as Microsoft. In 15 years $COMPANY will dominate and we'll be in the same spot.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by em3rgent0rdr on Monday January 23, 2017 @10:42PM (#13468642)
Actually, I'm agreeing with you... Google never really should have done Android but rather skipped directly to making Chrome OS for phones.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by Already__Taken on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @04:10AM (#13469860)
A major tenant of Chrome is the rolling update model, nobody has ever got the android vendors to do anything slightly like that. My Moto E gen2 got 1 year of updates that's it.
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by mjevans on Monday January 23, 2017 @10:58PM (#13468704)
Back at the time phones hadn't scaled up enough. Remember how horrid early android (and iphones) were? I actually skipped the first generation entirely (and only got my first smart phone because it would be better than my existing phone and have GPS navigation as it's killer app).
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by rdnt01 on Monday January 23, 2017 @10:56PM (#13468693)
If chromeOS is the native eco, why is everyone talking about rolling chrome into Android and not the other way around?
Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by xyzzy_plugh on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @12:46AM (#13469098)
Because Android is the big dog. Android can and very well may eat the world. It's a very easy distro to abuse.

Chromeos on the other hand is a very well-thought-out distro that is extremely simple and low-level, enough that it could easily form the basis of a great OS like Android

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by prostoalex on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @02:07AM (#13469403)
That is the bane of a large company. A product that would've been successful user-count-wise and revenue-wise for a smallish startup starts looking like a failure when you operate in billions of users and tens of billions of revenue.

It's not that someone internally calls it out as a failure, but the constant pressure to compete for scarce resources (department budgets and developers in Google's case) encourages the internal politicking and resource wars. If YouTube or Search or Android is considered top priority at the moment, it's very unlikely some project like Google Voice or Google Talk have any kind of leverage in defending their budgets and/or teams.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by digi_owl on Monday January 23, 2017 @04:05PM (#13466013)
Likely because of their "20% personal project time" policy.

As best I recall, ChromeOS started as a personal project to see if one could build a OS around a web browser (and Google already had one handy).

On top of this Android didn't start within Google. And Rubin ran it as his own fief. Supposedly he insisted that all Android devices come equipped with a mobile radio, and thus Google would not certify WiFi only tablet devices.

Re:Updates to our Google Voice apps by hk__2 on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:03PM (#13467049)
A lot of other companies have this policy (Google didn’t invent it) and aren’t in that kind of mess.