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Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by pjmlp on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:19AM (#13461152)
Symbian/UIQ, already had quite a good security model specially since S60 3rd Edition, pity Android devs not followed up on it.
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by digi_owl on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:40AM (#13461238)
Frankly i will eternally be puzzled why Symbian was dropped like a hot potato when iPhone and Android entered the scene.

It was almost as if the American tech press was completely unfamiliar with the mobile world outside USA (never mind being stupefyingly in love with Apple), and thus they praised iPhone like something unique in the mobile world when it launched.

The real puzzler though is that the rest of the world's tech press parroted that message like they believed it, when they should have known better.

Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by willvarfar on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:55AM (#13461298)
I was an insider so I was jaded and biased. But ... :)

S60 was a horrid codebase and very hard to wrangle into modern things.

UIQ was a cleaner smaller codebase where the main big apps (e.g. messaging) didn't actually use the latest greatest parts of the framework. UIQ was always being dragged in opposing directions by its two big owners - Sony Ericsson and Motorola. Sony Ericsson had some success with their early P800 and just wanted to keep on iterating that with the P900 etc, whereas Motorola wanted smarter feature phones and features like keypad navigation. Neither wanted capacitive touch, despite UIQ suggesting it umpteen times.

The Symbian codebase was an antiquated C++ dialect. I happened to have liked it, and found it very expressive and powerful and simple, but there was definitely a learning curve.

When the iphone came along it was so simple and beautiful and had a capacitive screen and basically everything else was obsolete immediately.

Android was unreleased and actually had an extensional crisis at that point, but they quickly revamped it to be more iphone-like and launched.

At that point everyone else thought "android will be cheaper to develop!" and dropped Symbian just as quick as they could.

And I don't blame them.

Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by pjmlp on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:27AM (#13461414)
Yes Symbian C++ was a pain and the Codewarrior replaced by Eclipse with CDT (attempt 1), replaced by Carbide (Eclipse CDT attempt 2), augmented with PIPS, extended with Qt, on top of Perl and BASH scripts wasn't very fun to use, if at all.

Recall that Nokia blog post that was quickly removed, about only devs that get paid would develop for Symbian?

When version 3 came out I was expecting Symbian C++ would be replaced by proper C++, given the overhaul the system got for security support.

Yet, the OS itself with its mikro-kernel architecture, C++ instead of C, task based architecture and security model was quite interesting from OS architecture point of view.

The updated Belle version was quite a joy to use on my Nokia C6-01.

Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by digi_owl on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:23AM (#13461397)
That all sounds oddly similar to a bunch of reasoning going on in the FOSS world right now.
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by pjc50 on Monday January 23, 2017 @06:51AM (#13461531)
If I remember rightly, the real innovation was the "app store" (even if that came slightly after the iPhone launch). It was surprisingly hard to actually get S60 apps.
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by pjmlp on Monday January 23, 2017 @07:44AM (#13461786)
In Europe it was quite easy, as most operators had their own store and even Ovi Store was available since 2007, one year early than iPhone's one.
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by willvarfar on Monday January 23, 2017 @07:57AM (#13461848)
When the iphone was launched you couldn't make native apps.

http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/13/2612736/ios-history-iphon...

What the iphone1 did was look and feel gorgeous. It was entirely the user experience that made it an obvious winner that made Symbian obsolete overnight.

Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by pjmlp on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:00AM (#13462166)
Only for those that did not use a Nokia N95, Nokia Communicator or Nokia 7700 (one of the first touch screen mobiles), hence why I was hardly convinced back then.
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by willvarfar on Monday January 23, 2017 @10:39AM (#13462889)
And I was saying the iphone didn't start out with an appstore...
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by Yaggo on Monday January 23, 2017 @07:22AM (#13461676)
> Frankly i will eternally be puzzled why Symbian was dropped like a hot potato when iPhone and Android entered the scene.

I had top of the line Symbian/UIQ phone when I got the original iPhone. Despite not having user-installable apps nor 3G, I still remember the amazing "sci-fi" feeling of the iPhone. Graphics, display quality, ux, responsiviness, web browser etc. were superior compared to my SonyEricsson.

Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by digi_owl on Monday January 23, 2017 @08:29AM (#13462008)
A clear reminder that the masses are shallow...
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by ikurei on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:17AM (#13462262)
I would actually say that, to an extent, the masses are wise. Often they care more than we do about experience and reliabity. What good does it make to me if my phone has a micro-kernel architecture?

Of course, on the other hand, the "masses" should care a tad more about security.

Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by zelos on Monday January 23, 2017 @08:52AM (#13462129)
Demanding a decent user experience is shallow now?
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by maxxxxx on Monday January 23, 2017 @11:34AM (#13463377)
I tried to develop Symbian apps and this was probably the worst development experience I ever had. The SDK was a total mess and it felt like the OS was not much better behind the scenes.
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by tdkl on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:56AM (#13461300)
They were. American mobile phones didn't even have SMS.
Re:Android permissions and hypocrisy by macintux on Monday January 23, 2017 @09:48AM (#13462491)
That's certainly not accurate. MMS was I believe rare, but I was (reluctantly and clumsily) texting on a Motorola Pebl before the iPhone was released.