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Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by Spooky23 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @11:26AM (#13455819)
These stories have been around forever.

Customs officials in all countries have broad latitude to inspect incoming passengers and baggage. Fucking around with them and refusing to answer or evading questions is franking a stupid strategy.

What has changed is that there is more inspections and more theatre. They are more consistent(-ly awful) everywhere, including sleepy Canadian broader crossings.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by dboreham on Sunday January 22, 2017 @12:31PM (#13456091)
I cross the US/Canadian border in such a sleepy location once or twice every year. My experience is that the Canadian officials are professional and friendly whereas the US officers are sarcastic assholes. Note: I am a white US citizen.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by wang_li on Monday January 23, 2017 @11:27AM (#13463321)
I have a friend who lives in Canada and every year I mail her a birthday gift from the US. And every year I have to write on the outside of the box exactly what's inside and how much it costs. This is not hugely important, but I would prefer that she not know what's inside until she unwraps it and I would also like that she not have the exact price written right there.

So one year, after having moved to Seattle, I thought I could drive the gift across the border, make my declarations there and then mail it from Surry, BC. So I took my gift -- unwrapped -- in it's shipping box -- untaped -- and drove to the border. When I got to the window they asked why I was visiting Canada. I honestly told them that I was coming to ship a package and explained why.

I spent the next three hours sitting in a waiting room while they went through my cell phone, they went through the open box I was going to mail, charged me import duties, went through my car from top to bottom. Eventually they sent me on my way. I drove ten minutes to a UPS store and mailed the package.

Returned to the US, when I arrived at the booth, I handed them the paperwork the Canadian side had given me, they noted the time and asked why I had visited Canada and why it was only forty-five minutes, I explained that I was mailing a package, handed them the receipt from the UPS store and explained why. They laughed and waved me through.

Border crossing can be hit or miss depending on the mood of the agent.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by jskopek on Sunday January 22, 2017 @12:53PM (#13456208)
Funnily enough, I tend to get the opposite reaction. Have has some pretty miserable treatment from Canadian border guards at the Peace Arch crossing, but never the same from their American counterparts. I'm Canadian.

Of course, this might just be luck of the draw.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by pedalpete on Sunday January 22, 2017 @05:28PM (#13458003)
Also a Canadian and I get grilled more by Canadian border guards than American, though I think they are picking up on me because I traveled quite regularly when I was living in Canada.

They would ask me questions like "how long are you going to be in Canada?" when I'd answer that I didn't know, they would press me about why I didn't know. One guy who had held me up for far too long, I basically told him "I'm Canadian, you don't have an option to let me in or not" at that point, he let me through...

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by monksy on Sunday January 22, 2017 @06:14PM (#13458256)
American here: I got grilled at the Canadian border because I'm an IT Worker. They were concerned over the period of a weekend I'd violate NAFTA. Coming back in the same car at the end of the weekend: I was grilled and isolated from my car about all that I did in Canada by the US side. [At that time they didn't understand what AirBnB was]
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by slededit on Sunday January 22, 2017 @08:44PM (#13459033)
> "I'm Canadian, you don't have an option to let me in or not"

Be careful with that - while they have to let you in, your stuff is another matter.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by kahnpro on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:55PM (#13459641)
Well, there are nicer ways to say it... but still. "I'm Canadian, I live here, I haven't decided yet."

I'm kind of surprised that this was even a question for a Canadian citizen.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by slededit on Monday January 23, 2017 @12:04AM (#13459910)
As a fellow Canadian non-resident I get this all the time too. The reason is because if you are returning there are tax and duty implications - e.g. the car your probably driving needs to be imported. When I moved back a few years ago (only to leave again) I had to have a slew of returning resident paperwork so my stuff could come duty free.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by refurb on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:07PM (#13456646)
Same here, Canadian citizen as well. I've been absolutely grilled by the Canadians, but never by the US side.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by brianwawok on Sunday January 22, 2017 @04:36PM (#13457668)
American and Canadians grill me more. What is my wife's birthday? How many days are we staying? What day of the week are we leaving?

American guard is like "do you have more than 5 bottles of wine you need to declare? No, cool"

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by kahnpro on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:57PM (#13459654)
I've never been grilled by either. But the Americans always ask mor questions. Canadians are "welcome home", Americans usually ask a few standard questions to probe my reasons but nothing approaching a grilling. Just a light toasting.

Contrast with Russian customs who looked at my passport and said "Canada? Okay go"

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by kasey_junk on Monday January 23, 2017 @02:04PM (#13464892)
I've found it varies dramatically by crossing point. As an American driving across the border I frequently get lots of questions on either side. Flying it has been full grilling to basically nothing on either side.

Flying into Toronto City airport I frequently just get a nod and hand wave.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by johndubchak on Sunday January 22, 2017 @07:37PM (#13458709)
I have dual citizenship, both Canadian and US (naturalized Canadian and born in the US), and frequently cross at one of the "sleepy" border crossings as well.

When I get to the Canadian border, once they realize I'm Canadian, everything changes. It's a very friendly, warm greeting like a couple of old buddies that are heading out for a beer. My American wife, who's watched this a ridiculous number of times is just blown away by how I'm treated.

However, at the US border, while not always bad, I have run into several border agents that have been pure assholes. I've been detained and searched a number of times and have always been polite to a fault - I'm as white as the driven snow and have never broken a law, or been arrested. But you would think I'm flagged as a suspected drug runner or potential terrorist sympathizer. Sadly, it's simply not a stereotype.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by ClearAsMud on Sunday January 22, 2017 @08:27PM (#13458952)
Yup .... exactly. I think that we run drugs or something if we live close to the border, or are dualies. US border patrol are a bunch of asshats.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by graycat on Sunday January 22, 2017 @03:36PM (#13457281)
The last time I went to Canada, I was on a men's yacht cruise from Lake Erie to Lake Huron, and at one point we docked on the Canadian side, took a ride to a restaurant, and had a great dinner. So, we had to go through Canadian customs or whatever.

I had no passport, and the Canadian customs didn't ask for one.

The Canadian customs officials were all women, looked friendly, and were smiling. It looked like Canada was a really nice place!

So, I joked, self deprecating, that here I was, a US citizen from the crass, crude, violent, insensitive, vulgar US! :-) Right away with some seriousness of agreement the Canadian woman concurred! Still, it was a nice trip to Canada! I like Canada and hope to go back!

Of course, next time, in trying to return, maybe the US customs won't let be back in!

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by TallGuyShort on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:16PM (#13456334)
Exactly what I was just thinking. I was traveling on a foreign passport (from one of America's closest allies) as a personal guest of one of the most senior legal advisers to the POTUS at the time. Crossing into Canada? Pleasant. Crossing back? Oh. My. God. They lost their shit at me because some members of my family travelling on passports from the same country were in the vehicle behind us instead of with me. This was pre-9/11, and we were all on tourist visas. No idea why it was such a problem for them.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by Spooky23 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @02:39PM (#13456888)
I don't cross often, but I know a few people who do often. I've heard both complaints.

I think it depends heavily on the crossing and the specific staffing there. You have two jurisdictions sort of working side by side, so there's lots of fodder for tit-for-tat bullshit.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by ClearAsMud on Sunday January 22, 2017 @08:18PM (#13458908)
I couldn't agree with you more. Even in Buffalo, I cross about once every two months - if not more - and the Canadian folks are nothing more than polite. This includes Washington State, Minnesota, and New York crossings. I ENCOURAGE people to travel to Canada from the US. The ONLY time I ever had issues was with coming back into the US. The US border searched my car, my electronics, my cameras (I'm a pseudo-high end landscape guy) and basically I find the US re-entry as a US-citizen to be absolutely fucking insanely clownish. I hate the US border patrol though ... but love Canada .. I tolerate the douches.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by bigbugbag on Monday January 23, 2017 @05:04AM (#13461089)
Enjoy your nice experience of the Canadian border people, just don't get on their list of any kind 'cause if you do you will now have a similar experience of search in your email history and threatened if you refuse to decrypt what's encrypted. Though I do agree the Canadian border is professionals and the risk of brutality, abuse and incarceration is close to none.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by leesalminen on Sunday January 22, 2017 @09:20PM (#13459201)
Same here. I used to cross in Buffalo/Niagara Falls all the time and the Canadians are as polite as can be. The US guards are assholes.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by em3rgent0rdr on Sunday January 22, 2017 @11:51AM (#13455917)
Are you saying doing everything they say is the better strategy. I worry that likely leads to a world with less liberty.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by oneplane on Sunday January 22, 2017 @12:28PM (#13456072)
It's not that, it's more that you want to get in and you have to make sure they don't have a reason to say no. They have something you want (access) and you don't have anything they'd want to grant that. So as soon as you make it hard you're bound to have trouble.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by DennisP on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:17PM (#13456339)
It's illegal for them to deny entry to U.S. citizens.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by gexcolo on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:42PM (#13456462)
I'm the author of OP's post. Can you provide me more information about this? I've always wondered if that was the case, but I was once given a lengthy interview in the Amsterdam airport on my way to DEFCON last year, which gave the opposite impression.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by kelnos on Sunday January 22, 2017 @05:57PM (#13458155)
If you are a US citizen, US immigration cannot legally refuse you entry. They can make your life miserable (via private questioning, etc.), and US CBP can also make your life miserable (going through all your stuff, questioning you at length, etc.), but they are legally required to allow you into the US if you are a citizen. If they can pin something illegal on you, they can of course detain you and refer you to local or federal authorities, but they must (as a part of that) allow you back into the country. They can't force you to stay in the international zone at the airport, and can't send you to another country.

Now, this only applies to US citizens returning to the US. A US citizen arriving, for example, at Amsterdam, can certainly be turned away for any reason whatsoever.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by gexcolo on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @02:35AM (#13469511)
Thanks for this information. In my example, I was departing Amsterdam for the U.S.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by krastanov on Sunday January 22, 2017 @11:58AM (#13455946)
There is a big difference between upholding your rights of privacy while being respectful to the border agents and while being a smart-Aleck. You do not have to do everything they say, but you can stand your ground without trying to antagonize them unnecessarily.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by tacostakohashi on Sunday January 22, 2017 @06:22PM (#13458306)
Not really. There is no right to privacy at the U.S. border, so any "upholding" or "stand your ground" is, actually, being a smart aleck / unnecessary antagonization.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by krastanov on Sunday January 22, 2017 @06:32PM (#13458373)
Do you not see the difference between being polite and being obnoxious when you decline the search of a device in your possession? Indeed, the border agents can refuse to let you enter the country either way, but the probability of that happening would probably differ in the two cases.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by tacostakohashi on Sunday January 22, 2017 @08:14PM (#13458883)
No, I don't see the difference, because people crossing the U.S. border simply don't have any right to decline searches:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by krastanov on Sunday January 22, 2017 @10:46PM (#13459603)
You can decline the search in which case they can decline to let you in the country. The EFF FAQ has more details.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by tacostakohashi on Sunday January 22, 2017 @11:03PM (#13459673)
Interesting - I don't suppose you have a link to relevant part of this FAQ?
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by krastanov on Sunday January 22, 2017 @11:34PM (#13459787)
Sorry, I was on mobile when writing the previous comment.

Here is the lengthy document I remember: https://www.eff.org/document/defending-privacy-us-border-gui...

They can demand a password from you, you can refuse to give it, and they can then decide not to let you in the country. Being polite and respectful in your refusal to share an encryption key can mean less trouble.

A point that might have caused confusion: they can seize your device. The document does not specify what happens if you decline to give the device (as in whether you are arrested or simply declined entry to the country). As far as I understand the references, courts have not had to decide on this question yet.

Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by Spooky23 on Sunday January 22, 2017 @11:59AM (#13455949)
Customs is different than dealing with the police. There is no liberty at any border.
Re:I Had My Electronics Seized by U.S. Customs and Border Pr... by herbst on Tuesday January 24, 2017 @10:28AM (#13472055)
Ive been all around the world and never got closer inspected. Given i never were in the U.S. mostly because i am afraid that they know me to well. But nearly all my friends had trouble in the airport when they were. You can not tell me this is normal