Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bidet controls

Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by mikekchar on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:09AM (#13434264)

I've never seen this unit nor anything even remotely this complex in a public toilet. The vast majority of toilets I've seen are the basic washlet features and a few give you the added option of spray pressure. The pressure options I've only ever seen in hotels. Not only that, but the vast majority of public toilets are auto-flush.

Having said that, the "bidet" label on the "ladies" button is highly misleading ;-)

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by patio11 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:16AM (#13434296)

This use case (use by people who are not literate) is one of those few circumstances where worse-is-better, because public toilets (like one might find in a train station or department store) are typically either mechanically operated (trivial to use) or the lowest-scale models.

That said, this is not a rare, exotic toilet in Japan; it's something which would be unremarkable in an office building or a restaurant that you could reasonably use for date night.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by mikekchar on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:36AM (#13434372)

Living as I do in the inaka, I am rarely blessed with such things. Sometimes I think Tokyo is a different world ;-)

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by glandium on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:10AM (#13435128)

Don't you like the washiki toilets? ;) (seriously, I live neither in a big nor a small city, but there are way too many of them still, in this century)

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by mikekchar on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:29AM (#13435225)

I don't :-) But that's the reality of the izakayas around here. Actually the virtually brand new (7 years old???) onsen near me has exclusively washiki toilets (very nice new ones). Apparently the older patrons like them. They have handlebars on the wall too, which is a nice usability touch.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by timr on Thursday January 19, 2017 @05:25AM (#13434616)

I see one like this in nearly every Tully's and Starbucks in Kyoto. They don't have as many bottom-washing options, though.

Still waiting for someone to explain the difference between "bidet" and "behind"...neither one seems to function in the advertised manner.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by mikekchar on Thursday January 19, 2017 @05:30AM (#13434639)

Behind is for anyone's rear end. Bidet is for women. Not sure I want to explain more fully ;-)

It.... takes some experience... But definitely worth it in my experience :-)

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by timr on Thursday January 19, 2017 @05:40AM (#13434701)

Yeah, I figured that's the theory, but in practice I've found no consistent aiming for either function. Also, most washlets with both also have an independent forward/backward function.

Besides all that, is there some targeting system going on down there? Machine vision? Lidar?

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by mikekchar on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:23AM (#13434906)

None that I know of. A combination of adjusting yourself and using the forward back buttons usually works. There are also some with pulsating streams for extra scrubbing power.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by TeMPOraL on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:08AM (#13434832)

> Machine vision?

God please no. Don't give people ideas, lest we want to have a cloud-connected startup doing just that...

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by kalleboo on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:50AM (#13435043)

Simpsons did it? https://youtu.be/BPLrNWAsBWU?t=18

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by Nullabillity on Thursday January 19, 2017 @03:44PM (#13439295)

There's also that Adult Swim infomercial... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by dqv on Thursday January 19, 2017 @02:10PM (#13438570)

It's going to happen sooner or later. I'm pretty sure the $8000 models employ some kind of computer vision to adjust the sprayer to the correct "human output interface".

A cloud toilet that examines your feces and urine probably isn't far off (and is probably already in the works).

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by TeMPOraL on Thursday January 19, 2017 @02:48PM (#13438885)

So I guess that beyond Cloud-to-Butt, we'll have a Butt-to-Cloud extension...

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by Mtinie on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:21AM (#13434898)

The rise of self-aware bidets will end poorly...

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by rangibaby on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:42AM (#13434999)

Just wiggle your behind around until you get the right spot

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by aninhumer on Thursday January 19, 2017 @03:25AM (#13434082)

On the majority, if not all of Japanese toilets I remember using, the actual flush was just a normal flush. The buttons were just for the various washlets mounted in the toilet seat, and could be safely ignored.

Obviously you have more experience than my one holiday, but it seems surprising that I wouldn't have encountered this problem if it's widespread?

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by masklinn on Thursday January 19, 2017 @03:32AM (#13434101)

> The buttons were just for the various washlets mounted in the toilet seat, and could be safely ignored.

Unless they were shared toilets and some asshole had cranked the seat heat all the way up, hot enough that it felt scalding.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by meriororen on Thursday January 19, 2017 @03:34AM (#13434109)

flush is the leftmost button on top of the remote, to the right side of it is also flush, if you only need small amount of water. To the right of that "little" flush, is even more "eco" flush.. This is why they need standardization.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by hypercluster on Thursday January 19, 2017 @05:02AM (#13434524)

I've been to Japan recently and saw all kinds of toilets. I encountered types like that as well and honestly it's not that difficult. I don't speak Japanese but you'll quickly figure out that the dots represent the water amount for flushing, that there are probably two bidet functions per gender (water more spread out or not), that the "sliders" control the pressure etc. There are other buttons for deodorization, sounds and whatnot but well, that's just the cherry on top. I miss them!

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by ecopoesis on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:22AM (#13435538)

I don't read Japanese at all, but it seems pretty obvious the the three buttons on the top left are big flush, middle flush and eco-flush.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by yellow_viper on Thursday January 19, 2017 @02:35PM (#13438780)

Yep, as soon as I seen 'eco' you could figure out what is flush.

If eco wasn't there I can see how it would be confusing though.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by empath75 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:29AM (#13435573)

Confusing Japanese toilets were my favorite part about visiting. I don't mind having to it a few random buttons. But yeah having standardized iconography for visitors is probably a good thing.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by mzs on Thursday January 19, 2017 @11:45AM (#13437186)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ih456yW-1fM/TeNNzvbwQjI/A...

sym for big is up, sym for small (urine only) is down - I see them right away on your image at the top, usually the flusher is not on the seat controls itself either.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by emodendroket on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:19AM (#13435914)

I'm having a chuckle imagining Mr. Magoo getting sprayed every which way as he tries to figure out how to flush the toilet.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by DanBC on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:20AM (#13435185)

The slightly grimy buttons give me the heebeegeebees.

What does the button with the orange square do? What does the button with the 9 dots do?

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by wst_ on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:11AM (#13435461)

When you tap the rear/front cleaning button, water doesn't stop until you press the orange one, which means "stop". The 9 dots is the biggest flush.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by komodo on Thursday January 19, 2017 @12:08PM (#13437344)

The orange square is to stop the current bidet function. The 9 dots is a big flush, as opposed to the one beside it which is a small flush and then an even smaller 'eco' flush beside that.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by jrockway on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:11AM (#13435852)

> finding it will not help you finding it on the next machine you use

流す is just as much as an arbitrary pictogram as anything else. And it didn't even need a standardization process.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by emodendroket on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:17AM (#13435902)

Yeah but the odds you can read it if you aren't from East Asia are pretty low.

Also Japanese writing has gone through multiple standardizations.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by cm2187 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @03:06AM (#13433992)

https://youtu.be/gdnuOa7tDco?t=12

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by etatoby on Thursday January 19, 2017 @03:58AM (#13434225)

Oh, come on. It's pretty obvious that "eco 小" with the three dots means eco flush. It's also one of the larger buttons. Which means that the four and nine dots mean larger flushes. Which means that "流す" means flush. There you go, problem solved. Just take a note of 流 on a piece of paper, if you're not good at remembering symbols.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by scrollaway on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:09AM (#13434268)

Oh, oh, and let me guess: A home FTP account with curlftpfs and cvs is just as good as Dropbox.

Please stop blaming the user for UX issues.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by Freak_NL on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:50AM (#13434455)

The user is expected to be able to read basic Japanese. You are of course welcome to use the product without that prerequisite; just experiment.

If you are a lady not much can go wrong; for us blokes… well you might get your ball-sack rinsed, but that, while surprising and slightly awkward, is fairly harmless on the whole.

What's the fun in being a tourist if you understood everything around you.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by Vinkekatten on Monday January 23, 2017 @11:08AM (#13463115)

I'm inclined to agree. Convincing someone to use a space-age toilet for the first time without giving them instructions is hilarious.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by yincrash on Thursday January 19, 2017 @11:17AM (#13436910)

Not everyone attempts to flush while sitting down on the toilet.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by sgrove on Thursday January 19, 2017 @12:16PM (#13437401)

I believe most models will refuse to turn on any washlet function if there's no pressure on the entire seat (not sure exactly what the predicate is, but something along those lines). Certainly my model[0] in SF is that way.

[0] - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007HIKPQC

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by etatoby on Thursday January 19, 2017 @12:30PM (#13437510)

What are you talking about? The user is always to blame, when the functionality is there in the first place.

UX is just a fancy term to invent new jobs, or to sell more products to dumb people.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by bonaldi on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:18PM (#13439586)

The Design of Everday Things is a fantastic read that disagrees almost entirely with you on that.

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Re:Japanese toilet industry agrees to standardize complex bi... by alanh on Friday January 20, 2017 @05:58PM (#13447651)

This is the dumbest coherent thought I have ever read. Edit Look, I don’t know you, but if I presume you are a smart young hacker… your own attitude toward technology as something that can and will be understood, conquered, and mastered will serve you well, but you must also come to realize that your own creations will never matter unless they work for an entirely different audience. And no, you don’t have to be dumb for a poorly designed interface to confuse and disorient you.

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