> Its certainly OK for a product to innovate, as GIMP has.

I'm not sure the GIMP's UI choices can generally be described as "innovating". I think they're generally just the obvious GTK+ default options, implemented without much testing or tweaking.

GTK is the Gimp Tool Kit. I expect GIMP to use the defaults: historically they created to toolkit for their needs, and so they should choose the right defaults for them.

Note that the above is historical. GNOME selected GTK long ago and has somewhat strong armed GTK development away from GNOME. I don't follow either project closely enough to suggest how much.

Here's an example that was just pointed out to me by prokoudine:

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/commit/?id=52ad5bb2a11e39f...

The default situation was that the toolbox grabbed the focus when clicked. That meant various actions, eg. "Show/hide docks", didn't work if the last thing you clicked was the toolbox. That's an annoyance created by "accepting the defaults", that's thankfully now been fixed in light of real-world usability issues.

It's like they've confused the valid idea of an open source programmer being tainted by looking proprietary source code, with the ridiculous idea that a user interface designer would be tainted by looking at or using a proprietary user interface.

Some aspects of Photoshop's user interface are patented, but it's much safer and wiser to LOOK at them and be aware of them and read the patents, so you're consciously aware of what not to do accidentally, and able to work around them.

> I think they're generally just the obvious GTK+ default options, implemented without much testing or tweaking.

GTK+ is the GIMP ToolKit; the entire toolkit is GIMP's innovation.

> And it shows in the clumsy menus that make sense if you went along for the ride but for a 1st-timer are just confusing.

Would you mind being a wee bit more specific? :)

Sure! Running a script is under 'Filters' for some reason. To undo a brush, that's under 'Windows' inexplicably. Filters like Feather and Distort are under 'Select'. Keyboard shortcuts are under 'Edit'. The Plugin Browser tool is under 'Help'

My favorite: 'File' has 'Open' above 'Open as Layers', as if you'd more commonly want to destroy all your image layer info when opening an image file. In fact, with 'flatten' there's no need for 'Open' at all?

These things maybe made some sense at some time, who knows. But now, its like a blender went through the menus and scattered features at random.

I'm fairly sure that 'Open as Layers" allows you to open multiple files at the same time as layers in a single images, instead of opening and adding each individually. Open will open an image with all its layers as you would expect, it won't flatten it. Feather and Distort operate on the selection, so being under Select makes sense.

I'm probably out of date. Used to be, you had to have plugins to open exotic formatted files like "pdf"; initially the plugin for that just imported the flat bitmap. But that was long ago.

> Running a script is under 'Filters' for some reason.

You mean the script console? Where would you rather see it?

> To undo a brush, that's under 'Windows' inexplicably.

Er... I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you elaborate please?

> Filters like Feather and Distort are under 'Select'.

Well, they are not exactly filters, and they affect the selection rather than actual pixel data.

> Keyboard shortcuts are under 'Edit'.

We don't have a Settings menu :)

> The Plugin Browser tool is under 'Help'

Where would you place it?

> My favorite: 'File' has 'Open' above 'Open as Layers', as if you'd more commonly want to destroy all your image layer info when opening an image file.

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.

> In fact, with 'flatten' there's no need for 'Open' at all?

Why?

I can answer these. But consider: the fact that it seems confusing it the whole issue here. Not that it makes sense to you.

And note I am using Gimp 2. So these things may have changed.

Scripts: I would imagine these would be under Tools.

A quick survey of apps show that options and settings are usually under Tools. Or Files.

And the Plugin Browser is an odd bird. Its details I struggle with when writing scripts. Its reasonable that a database could be under Help. I need it when I'm writing scripts, and no other time. And there's nowhere to go from there - no 'copy example to cut buffer' etc. I'm accustomed to viewing it from a Script console, so I can construct each argument. But not a thing I'm ever going to browse like other Help items.

Admittedly, nested menus is a fairly opaque way to categorize features. Everything is hidden unless you 'open the little door' like an Advent calendar. You can't search for anything without just doing a click-fest down the row. Its a shortcoming of the paradigm. Why others turned to the hated 'ribbon' etc - to make feature-hunting more transparent.

Please don't blame Blender for that! ;)

Photoshop isn't available unless you pay money or violate copyright, so I can well imagine not having exposure.

That could be me. I think I might have used it though, on a System 6 Mac with a 1-bit black-and-white screen. (resulting opinion: Photoshop doesn't support color)

There is a web site called "youtube" that has many many free video tutorials explaining how to use Photoshop. There is nothing about self imposed ignorance to be proud about.