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Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by harryf on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:13AM (#13417156)
"I want my money back!"

Margret Thatcher at the European Union summit in Dublin in 1980

"That such an unnecessary and irrational project as building a European superstate was ever embarked upon will seem in future years to be perhaps the greatest folly of the modern era. And that Britain, with her traditional strengths and global destiny, should ever have been part of it will appear a political error of historic magnitude."

Margret Thatcher from her book Statecraft published in 2003

... just pointing out that Margaret Thatchers views on Europe were nuanced at best. Probably best explained by this segment from Yes Minister https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by tomeehan on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:36AM (#13417348)
There's a difference between a free trade area and a political union.

Thatcher was thoroughly against the centralisation of power and monetary policy in Europe, but all for free trade.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by mrec on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:46AM (#13417426)
Yes. There's also a difference between a free trade area and a customs union. A lot of Americans in particular seem to think the EU works something like NAFTA when it comes to trade.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by emptyfile on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:24AM (#13417752)
Right, which is why the UK, very successfully, blocked every attempt at EU integration and secured opt outs out of Euro and Schengen for itself.

As a European, I believe I'm not alone in thinking it's great that the biggest obstacle to EU integration is leaving the EU, we're just all very puzzled as to why considering the UK had the best deal possible in the EU.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by digi_owl on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:46AM (#13417920)
Thing is, and it took me all too long to learn this, Schengen is not what enables foreign workers to enter another EU member nation. It just makes it easier.

The Brexit yes came overwhelmingly form the old industrial areas of UK. From the towns and such that has seen their quality of life stagnate or deteriorate while the jobs gets done by foreigners that come by the busload.

Damn it, i don't live in UK but i have seen the phenomena myself. A local wharf some years back had a boom year, and the the peak there were perhaps twice as many foreigners working there as locals.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by emptyfile on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @10:02AM (#13418056)
All EU's fault obviously.

Minimum wage, union nagotiated wages, restricting benefits for non working immigrants, IDs to combat illegal immigration, unused emergency brakes for immigration, none of that matters it's the damn EU's fault and most definitely not the UK government.

I promised myself I will only post one comment and not get dragged into any discussions so I this is my last one.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by omegaworks on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @02:17PM (#13420253)
Wherever a scapegoat is needed it always seems to be the foreigners and immigrants first to be fingered.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by portref on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @10:29AM (#13418298)
Can't just blame post-industrial areas, SE England voted to leave too.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by laingc on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @10:03AM (#13418065)
And I'm not the only resident of Germany who wishes that we would follow Britain's example.

I likely have a biased sample, but amongst my colleagues and friends, I don't know anyone who wants further European integration, and most want out completely.

Anecdata cuts both ways.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by gls2ro on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @11:54AM (#13419029)
If I may ask what are your reasons of wanting to get out of EU? I'm interested if possible in an overview of short term and long terms objectives and gains/advantages.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by laingc on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @12:27PM (#13419298)
I don't want to write a thesis here, but hopefully a bullet-pointed list will suffice:

* The EU is not only undemocratic in the sense that the powerful European Commission is unelected, but is in fact antidemocratic in the sense that one generally has to have lost a democratic election in one's own country to be appointed to it.

* The EU places an enormous regulatory drain on its member states, issuing a stifling number of pro-corporate, anti-free-market regulations every year

* Policies such as the Common Agricultural Policy, the Clinical Trials Directive, and the Port Services directive are extremely illiberal policies, introduced to satisfy special interests.

* The EU is in the process of exporting draconian, crushing German-style data protection law to the rest of the continent.

* The European Court of Justice is not only activist, but also highly incompetent, lacking the institutional jurisprudential experience of proper supreme courts, such as those found in the UK.

* The Common Market is not a free trade agreement, it is a customs union. Combined with the EU's inability to negotiate free trade agreements (held up by Italian tomato growers, French vintners, and just about every other special interest wanting protection), this means that export-focussed economies such as Germany's are hampered from engaging with faster-growing economies - and just about every other continent's economy is growing faster than Europe's.

As I said, I don't want to write a thesis here, but these are just a few of the many reasons why I believe that Germany - and almost every other country in Europe - would be better off making its own laws by a democratic process, trading and cooperating freely with its friends and allies, rather than being part of an antidemocratic, supranational bureaucracy.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by ionised on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @12:55PM (#13419552)
Weird that you as a German actually want data protection laws relaxed. I would have though given your history you would want more of it. I certainly do.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by dogma1138 on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @02:09PM (#13420183)
German data protection laws do not offer as much privacy as you think, not when it comes to the state in fact many of them mandate data collection and retention requirements even when it's not needed or wanted.

They also offer very little visibility to what is collected.

Sure data cannot be easily shared or exported but this doesn't increase privacy as much as you think of at all, in fact it can hinder it.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by laingc on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @01:51PM (#13420009)
I live in Germany, but I'm not German.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by robert_foss on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:23AM (#13417242)
That yes minister clip really does seem to reflect what has happened here.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by hackerboos on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:29AM (#13417289)
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by derrickdirge on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:22AM (#13417224)
> global destiny

Does this mean what it sounds like it means?

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by mangecoeur on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:52AM (#13417466)
People in the UK haven't quite gotten over that whole global empire thing. Every now and then they make documentaries about how they brought civilization to India or something.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by vixen99 on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:30AM (#13417796)
Empires were certainly established for the benefit of the empire builder but India also gained in many ways via British social reform - abolition of Sati (burning to death of widows) and child marriage for instance, construction of the railway system, roads, canals, mines, sewers, plantations and the establishment of English law and <language> and the idea of democracy.

I haven't checked but if the BBC still make documentaries on colonization by the British they almost certainly focus on its undoubted sins along with corruption within the East India Company.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by detritus on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:17AM (#13417665)
Source, or is that just some generalised opinion based on simplistic historical foreign parody?
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by dx034 on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:43AM (#13417898)
Not about documentaries, but May talked today about the Commonwealth and the importance for UK trade. They hope to get better deals just because they've occupied the country a century ago.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by senorjazz on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:29AM (#13417794)
Anecdotal, but many do hold that view.

Similarly anecdotal, whilst in India met many Indians who held the same view.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by kchoudhu on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:59AM (#13417519)
I mean, the East India Company is still a going concern. It's worrying on numerous levels.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by dingaling on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:54AM (#13417996)
It's hard to convey just how incredibly huge and powerful was the East India Company. For example, they used to donate their used time-served warships to the Royal Navy as an act of charity!

The closest parallel today would probably be something like a merger between Halliburton and Academi, the varied enterprises of which profit hugely from foreign adventurism of their host state and which have autonomous military potential in excess of that of many countries. But even that would fall well short in terms of revenue. Perhaps throw Apple into that mix as well and you'd get close.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by detritus on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:14AM (#13417635)
Oh dear.

Go check what the 'modern East India Company' actually sells, who owns it and why he bought it.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by kchoudhu on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @09:20AM (#13417702)
Oh, I know who owns it. Doesn't make the brand's continued existence any less repugnant.

Think of it this way: do you think anyone could get away with selling Triangle Trade Rum?

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by ionised on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @12:56PM (#13419564)
Yup, and as a Brit I have to facepalm every time I recognise this in the people around me.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by mathw on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:29AM (#13417297)
Yes, and it's something the Brexit crowd are relying upon in their visions of our prosperity after leaving the EU.

I happen to think it's a load of hogwash, but I really don't want to see them proven wrong because I'll still have to live through it.

Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by robert_foss on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @08:45AM (#13417418)
Well, it's a marketing prop that tries to refocus the attention on a conceivably positive aspect.
Re:Theresa May: UK must leave European single market by ionised on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @12:56PM (#13419559)
Exceptionalism.

We all know how well that turns out.