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Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by milesf on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:21AM (#13350408)
The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them...

The war on drugs might subside because of the perfect enemy they have now: terrorists. A faceless, ever-present threat that can keep the war drums beating.

What I'd like to see is the military-industrial complex shift their battle to a War on Extinction: space exploration.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by ht85 on Sunday January 08, 2017 @12:04PM (#13350652)
I don't think needing an enemy is specific to the United States, they are just slightly less shameful than other "modern" countries about it. I quote modern because in many areas of its way to govern, the US seems to be pretty on par with other societies they love to demonize and call "backwards".

I think generally there are people with all sorts of agendas. Unfortunately, in the current state of society, the ones that stick will always be the ones who drive profits the most.

Fear might be the strongest motivator for the average human being. It's not surprising systems fed by conflict and imaginary enemies seem to thrive so much.

It doesn't mean that there aren't bubbles of people who are different, but they are just ripples among the waves.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by vinayak147 on Sunday January 08, 2017 @12:52PM (#13350925)
This is not unique to the US and not even unique to the modern era. The "common enemy" is the glue of every civilization. Build a case against a scapegoat and rally public opinion to wage a war - this is essentially the job of every form of government. Let's wage war on poverty, corporations, the 1%, unions, drugs, immigrants, corruption, terrorism... the list goes on and on. You can go back to the Bhagwad Gita, the Bible, the ancient myths... and the story doesn't change very much.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by sroerick on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:55PM (#13351268)
The war on drugs and the war on terror is the same war.

We stage coups in democratic countries, then we install puppet leaders. Then we start growing, harvesting, or selling drugs there. Then we move on to the next country.

Check out the history of Captagon.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by liquidise on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:40AM (#13350526)
I'm glad to see someone else come to a similar conclusion. The one thing i would add: this singular enemy tends to be held generationally. As the generations move in and out of the prime voter ages (and the congresspeople they are voting for) US policy changes dramatically around these vilified groups.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by tunap on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:06PM (#13351010)
My favorite stoner had very cogent thoughts on perceived and real fears[0], marijuana usage[1] and our easily manipulated lizard brains[2]. Carl Sagan corrupted me for life.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world

[1] http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by spiderfarmer on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:52AM (#13350577)
Imagine if there was an all-out war on poverty, disease and corruption. The progress we could make.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by maw on Sunday January 08, 2017 @12:40PM (#13350873)
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by spiderfarmer on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:20PM (#13351393)
No, more like: Spend all defense budgets around the world on programs that reduce poverty, increase health and functioning governments.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by wsgeorge on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:51PM (#13351583)
I don't see that happening. Because someone is going to want to keep their guns, just in case.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by tripzilch on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @07:53AM (#13364458)
Yes. They also want to keep the smallpox, just in case. We could have banished it from the planet entirely but we're keeping some samples of it, just in case.

It's absurd. The absurd part being, if you told me we actually got rid of it, I wouldn't believe it either. So maybe better keep some, just in case. So understandable and so stupid at the same time--absurdity.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by ekianjo on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:56AM (#13350597)
> The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them...

Not really "the US" per se, but the lobbies behind politics (the police likes the war on drugs because they get massive federal grants for it, and equipment resellers are happy to oblige - and where there is big money, there are influencers to make sure politicians go a certain way) in order to thrive.

Add to that that the public opinion is pretty much against drugs in America, and it's fairly straightforward for politicians to double-down on that kind of topic and enforce rigidity.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by notyourwork on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:15PM (#13351056)
> War on Extinction

This is a really good way to phrase it as a marketing campaign. It could be used for global warming, energy problems and like you mention space exploration.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by groovy2shoes on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:37PM (#13353828)
Given our track record when it comes to "Wars on Concepts", initiating an outright "War on Extinction" seems to me like a sure-fire way to guarantee we go extinct within 20 years...

Maybe we ought to instead start a "War on Health" or a "War on Learning" ;)

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by losteric on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:37PM (#13351174)
The US is held together by our enemies. Without one, our "perfect" union would quickly fall apart due to infighting.

We lack the social cohesion to exist otherwise. Our nation has lost the grand dreams that drove our forefathers... now we huddle together fearing the nightmares and boogeymen.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by darpa_escapee on Sunday January 08, 2017 @12:45PM (#13350893)
Terrorists are an existential threat, but our society doesn't have just one bogeyman: they are around every corner to scare us into doing things we wouldn't normally do. Remember, the terrorists manufacture drugs to sell to us and if you buy drugs you are supporting terrorism.

That said, I think it might subside for different reasons.

The demographics of drug addiction are changing. Addictive drug use went from being primarily a poor minority inner city epidemic to something affecting affluent white kids, professionals with bad backs and the elderly. The road from Oxycontin to heroin is a well documented phenomenon[1] that has become all too familiar with the people who pushed for severe punishments for drug crimes.

If your kid could be facing 10 years in jail because he was charged with the intent to distribute a bag of heroin, and that same situation is playing out in towns all over America, suddenly the wheels of change get greased.

[1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/15/heroin-...

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:21PM (#13351092)
> Terrorists are an existential threat

Give me a break. I've never heard a more hyperbolic statement even from diehard warmongers.

There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security. Even several orders of magnitude more attacks a year would be barely a blip in terms of actual casualties.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by konceptz on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:34PM (#13351157)
I understand your point but as a New Yorker, an order of magnitude greater would be 20 buildings or a nigh-complete distruction of downtown. Sorry if my comment is emotion driven but the above comment seems very cold.

Edit: just reread your comment and several orders is 200 buildings?

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:16PM (#13351372)
I'm not saying that terrorism isn't bad. Obviously it would be upsetting, but to be clear: an order of magnitude more terrorism would be a 9/11-level attack every year. Even with that catastrophic level, NYC would still survive. I understand this is an emotional topic (especially living here) but it's impossible to pretend that terrorism is an "existential" threat.

Realistically, as cold as this sounds, a terrorist attack which managed to level downtown would not even pose an existential threat to the US.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by grzm on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:22PM (#13351401)
I concur with your assessment regarding human lives. That said, I think it's also important to take into account the effects those attacks have had on American society, such as the reduction of civil liberties, the increase in surveillance, and the changes in US foreign policy which have changed the position of the US in the world. These are significant. What would effect would additional attacks have? Yes, these are reactions rather than direct action, but at this point they've been frighteningly predictable. One could argue that this is an existential threat to the US as we know it, even if it isn't existential in terms of human lives, or in the country per se.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:33PM (#13351462)
That's a fair point, but it's not what people who talk about the "existential threat" of terrorists are talking about. They're usually the ones pushing for more surveillance.

More terrorism might change the nature of US democracy, but it will still be the US.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by wsgeorge on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:57PM (#13351614)
> There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security.

This statement surprises me. Especially your talk of casualties. I think you miss something important about "terrorism". It is far more than raw casualty numbers. It is about the "fear and uncertainty" they generate in a populace. And that, to me, is a threat to any modern nation's existence, in a world whose economy depends a lot on things like "confidence" and "optimism".

Perhaps I misunderstand developed nations, but from my point of view, your statement seems alarmingly absurd.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @03:07PM (#13351676)
What's the conceivable scenario where even heightened levels of "fear and uncertainty" lead to the collapse of the USA?

Also keep in mind that people are already extraordinarily pessimistic and unconfident about the country.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by grzm on Sunday January 08, 2017 @03:26PM (#13351785)
How do you define "collapse of the USA"? Dissolution? Fall of the government? Effective dictatorship? Widespread police state? Something else?
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @03:36PM (#13351838)
I'd say the end to constitutional governance would be a good definition. That'd be included in all your scenarios except the police state.

As much as I'd hate to live in a police state, I don't think you can call that the "collapse of the USA." China is very much alive.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by grzm on Sunday January 08, 2017 @03:38PM (#13351847)
I think many Americans would no longer consider the USA the same country if it were a police state. It would be the US in name only.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:49PM (#13353869)
Eh, we're a country that also allowed slavery for decades and only allowed a minority of citizens to vote for most of its history. I'm willing to embrace an expansive definition of the "US."
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by grzm on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:34PM (#13354037)
allowed slavery for decades

And doesn't anymore.

only allowed a minority of citizens to vote for most of its history

And now does.

These are both examples of how the US has improved over time. I would be very surprised to see a reversal on either of these. If there were, people would similarly question whether it was still the US in anything but name, even if this had been the situation in the past.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by darpa_escapee on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:30PM (#13351139)
> Give me a break. I've never heard a more hyperbolic statement even from diehard warmongers.

There are sizable portions of the US and Europe that believe muslims are terrorist sympathizers who want to enact Sharia law. To them terrorists, immigrants and muslims are existential threats: they want to blow them up, take their jobs and run their lives and government.

> There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security.

I agree.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:19PM (#13351389)
> There are sizable portions of the US and Europe that believe muslims are terrorist sympathizers who want to enact Sharia law.

Sure, and there are millions of people who believe all sorts of nutty things. Millions of people believe that stars predict the future or that aliens regularly abduct people. That doesn't mean we should legitimize these beliefs.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by darpa_escapee on Sunday January 08, 2017 @04:35PM (#13352161)
Acknowledging that a bogeyman exists as a bogeyman doesn't legitimize the belief that a bogeyman is real.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by morgante on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:49PM (#13353870)
It does if you refer to the bogeyman without pointing out that it's false. You said terrorists are an existential threat, not that some (crazy) people think they are.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by portent on Sunday January 08, 2017 @01:46PM (#13351215)
Terrorists do threaten national security, but very rarely provide an existential threat. It's hard to imagine a terrorist group causing the collapse of the USA.
Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by czep on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:53PM (#13351587)
> It's hard to imagine a terrorist group causing the collapse of the USA.

It's actually not that hard to imagine: dirty bomb set off in midtown Manhattan, kills thousands and sickens tens of thousands. In its hasty reply, the US launches a massive counterstrike against somewhere based on shoddy intel. Putin says, oh hell no, and red buttons are pushed. That's game over folks.

Re:I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life by tripzilch on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @08:19AM (#13364557)
> Remember, the terrorists manufacture drugs to sell to us and if you buy drugs you are supporting terrorism.

You're being sarcastic, right?