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Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by barrkel on Sunday January 08, 2017 @12:03AM (#13348370)
This is ridiculously simplistic - take woman, for example. The distinction between woman and girl isn't nearly as simple as age. There's a sorites paradox in trying to find a dividing point of age, but actually woman connotes a bunch of other concepts probabilistically. It suggests independence and maturity vs childishness and cuteness. While girl is often used in the context not of children, but women as objects of courtship - girls on a night out, girlfriend etc. And a poem or song may play with the multiple meanings and ambiguities - where is Britney's Not a Girl in this symbolic analysis?

The only way you can get symbols to work is with weights. Follow this to its logical conclusion and I think you'll end up with a system isomorphic with the vector approach, with dimensions representing something like symbols.

Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by DonaldFisk on Sunday January 08, 2017 @02:47AM (#13348803)
It was a very simplified example. The Cyc database contains more realistic examples. Yes, I'd seriously consider augmenting symbols with numeric data. You could even store the vector obtained from word2vec as a property of the symbol if that's found to be useful in capturing nuance, but you can't store symbols on floating point vectors.
Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by barrkel on Sunday January 08, 2017 @04:14AM (#13349000)
Here's another example.

    The fat cat is sitting on a mat.
Only someone who has spent too much time away from people could possibly think that the meaning of this sentence is that somewhere, there is a fat cat sitting on a mat. It's a direct allusion to books used to teach reading to young children. It's a reference to simple sentences and simple words.

And even within the world of the sentence, it only has a vague meaning. What exactly makes the cat fat? Is it neutered or lazy or overfed? Why is it sitting on a mat - is the mat outside a door, is it waiting to be let in? What kind of a cat is it - could it be a big, dangerous cat? The sentence is laden with signifiers and unknowns. Western children are taught to consider sentences like these in the abstract, but it's not a natural way of thinking, because it's not practical in a life lived connected to the world.

Abstract hypotheticals are the hallmark of more disconnected concerns, and we teach our children this early, in part using silly, deliberately vague sentences like these, and discouraging curious questions that might resolve the ambiguities.

An AI system that's designed to handle abstract sentences like these is not one designed to understand human language, because humans don't reason like this unless they're thinking analytically - and even then, they do so blinkered with biases and errors.

Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by homarp on Sunday January 08, 2017 @09:44AM (#13349846)
>Only someone who has spent too much time away from people could possibly think that the meaning of this sentence is that somewhere, there is a fat cat sitting on a mat.

or someone who did not grow up using the English language.

Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by czep on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:19AM (#13349987)
I grew up with English and when I read that sentence, to me it means that there is a fat cat sitting on a mat. Not sure what point was trying to be made here.
Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by barrkel on Sunday January 08, 2017 @03:56AM (#13348961)
The edge between a word and a symbol is where the number belongs - and arguably it should be a time series of numbers. In the vector view of the world, the dimensions of the vector are symbols - the number in a particular slot for a word vector is the number on the edge between the word and the symbol. But the "symbol" represented by a dimension may be a compound or quite abstract concept, it may not map trivially to a single word.
Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by coldtea on Sunday January 08, 2017 @08:08AM (#13349549)
>The distinction between woman and girl isn't nearly as simple as age. There's a sorites paradox in trying to find a dividing point of age

Or, you know, you can use a cut-off point, like 18 or so.

Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by barrkel on Sunday January 08, 2017 @08:18AM (#13349583)
If we're trying to assign meaning to words as used by humans, that's not even in the region of correct. It's not even wrong, it's on a different planet entirely.

Predicate calculus is an entirely parallel system that only has a representation in a strict subset of human language. A reverse mapping is hopeless and misguided.

I feel like this line of thought, that you can box up words with really concrete meanings that you can then reason about with logic systems is a kind of trap for people who've spent too much time in an analytic frame of the world. It's one where the smarter you are, the further down the road you can get without realising it's a dead end. At best, such a system could only augment.

Re:King – man + woman is queen; but why? by coldtea on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:02AM (#13349906)
>If we're trying to assign meaning to words as used by humans, that's not even in the region of correct. It's not even wrong, it's on a different planet entirely.

It will totally be fine for 99% of applications. Marginal returns.