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Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by JPKab on Thursday December 29, 2016 @06:32PM (#13281173)
You're on the money.

Sadly, the only way to even discuss culture's role without being labelled a bigot is to discuss the cultural differences within white Americans. When you're talking about how cultural traits prevalent in Appalachian communities like the one I grew up in exacerbate inequality, suddenly you have an audience. See the author J.D. Vance who wrote 'Hillbilly Elegy', and has subsequently become a darling of the political left.

It's funny, because my time spent in poor white communities and poor black communities allowed me to see how radically similar the two communities cultural traits often are. And also very similar is the fact that these communities have mixed within them families who go against the grain and succeed by not succumbing to the cultural norms around them.

Thing is, if we're honest, it's a lot easier to become popular as a minister or a politician when you tell a disenfranchised group of people that they are victims of someone else than to tell them they need to fix their own culture. Poor white families whose fathers abandon them have the same issues as black families whose fathers are absent, but the media would rather focus on the edge cases where racist cops shoot black men without cause.

Nobody ever asked black Americans to vote for a spokesman. Instead the media has decided that Al Sharpton and his ilk should be the ones consulted as to what black folks care about. He's in New York like they are, so it's easy for them and lucrative for him. In the meantime, kids hold signs saying "Black Lives Matter", but nobody wants to hold a sign that says "Black Dads Matter" even though a movement like that would do more to help black America than any government program. 70% of children being born out of wedlock has a huge effect, whether anyone is willing to admit it or not. And blaming incarceration solves nothing. The majority of absent fathers in the black community are not incarcerated.

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by wutbrodo on Thursday December 29, 2016 @06:39PM (#13281212)
> Thing is, if we're honest, it's a lot easier to become popular as a minister or a politician when you tell a disenfranchised group of people that they are victims of someone else than to tell them they need to fix their own culture.

It's not just that it's easier to become popular this way: political figures that are _already popular_ but even pay lip service to cultural effects are sharply criticized by intellectuals. Just look at the spate of articles recently (and throughout his presidency) faulting Barack Obama for the handful of times that he's mentioned the potential for culture to have an effect. He's also been unusually candid for a national politician in talking about the direct effects of racism, so the usual complaint that talking about culture is only a tactic for ignoring actual racism falls flat.

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by pfisch on Thursday December 29, 2016 @08:21PM (#13281779)
So what you are saying begs the question, why are there so many absent fathers in the black community?

33% of black men go to prison. That creates a situation where there are far more unattached black females vs males.

What is the optimal mating strategy in an environment where the females vastly outnumber the males?

There is lots of evidence that black men are unfairly targeted by the police. So is the epidemic of absent fathers in the african american community an expected outcome of our current policies? Is this even a cultural issue or an issue that is created through government policy?

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by gertef on Thursday December 29, 2016 @07:28PM (#13281503)
Stop blaming Black people for White people ignoring them.

Black people know that "Black Dads Matter", but White people keep stealing them.

http://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by ajamesm on Thursday December 29, 2016 @06:51PM (#13281290)
Why do you blame culture, but ignore historical practices like redlining, or the obvious correlation with poverty, or the fact that American black people have had scarcely 50 years of equality under the law? That drugs in black communities are treated as crime, but drugs in white communities are seen as a public health crisis?

There are hundreds of issues of infinitely more substance than whether black children are conceived in wedlock.

What makes you a bigot isn't that you see that as something worth addressing. You're a bigot because, of all the problems facing black communities, you choose that one to judge them by.

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by JPKab on Thursday December 29, 2016 @07:44PM (#13281596)
A bigot? Really?

"There are hundreds of issues of infinitely more substance than whether black children are conceived in wedlock."

This is where it's obvious that you are yet another non-black person who has never lived in a predominantly black community or extensively socialized with large groups of black folks in real contexts. I've attended black churches countless times, been a best man and/or a groomsman in two weddings with two very good friends who happen to be black, and my own wedding party was my brother, and white coworker, and two black men who are my oldest friends. I don't point out the lack of fathers in the black community because I'm a bigot. I point it out because I care and don't believe America can succeed without the betterment of black America.

Fatherless children are vastly more likely to end up in jail, dead, or at best drop-outs. You talk about drugs and poverty, and act as if being raised without a father doesn't directly impact that? Are you fucking serious? I'm not "judging" the black community for lack of fathers. I'm characterizing a real problem that is obviously a root cause of many others. People like you who reflexively jump to cries of "bigot" don't help. You hurt by enabling the demagogues to continue to act as if the real challenges imposed on blacks by systemic racism are equal to the challenges imposed by a broken culture that was created by white racism but has now, post Civil Rights Act, morphed into a self-perpetuating feedback loop.

Now if you excuse me I'm going to go home to my mixed-race children and continue to hate them since I'm such a bigot according to some dipshit on the internet. I'll have to kick my wife out too. Can't believe I didn't see she wasn't an Aryan before.

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by ajamesm on Thursday December 29, 2016 @08:19PM (#13281775)
Do either of your black friends know you invoke their race in internet arguments?

I've lived in predominantly black neighborhoods and I've stepped over blood trails and crime scene tape to go to work, buddy, if that means credibility to you. I've taken cover during driveby shootings. Safe to say I don't idealize poor, black communities.

My question to you is: what are you going to do about absentee fathers?

If longwinded moralization about family values fixed anything, black communities would all be Beverly Hills by now, but it doesn't, so we have to look at practical and evidence-based approaches, like increasing access to family planning and drug rehab. These are measurable and reliable solutions, whereas the Bill Cosby approach has not yet demonstrated an effect.

These discussions about distressed communities are centered around recognition for identifying one singular problem, rather than holistic approaches to fixing problems in that sphere, so I don't come to HN with high hopes.

Anyway, my regards to your wife and kids.

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by eric_b on Thursday December 29, 2016 @06:55PM (#13281320)
I mean... jeez, again with the name-calling. Have you looked up the definition of "bigot"? It's defined as a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

In the comments I've seen you post so far, the intolerant one is... you.

Re:The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion by Frondo on Thursday December 29, 2016 @07:33PM (#13281532)
There is nothing intolerant in calling someone a bigot.