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Re:Mind as an emergent self-organizing process by wyager on Sunday December 25, 2016 @01:52AM (#13253279)
"the emergent self-organizing process, both embodied and relational, that regulates energy and information flow within and among us"

This definition is worthless. It has an incredibly high false-positive rate. For example, according to this, any animal would qualify as "a mind", any self-sustaining chemical reaction would qualify as "a mind", and in fact anything that sort of looks like life (key concept is "self-organizing") would qualify as "a mind".

Breaking it down:

> emergent self-organizing process

Any life, and a lot of things that probably wouldn't be counted as life. For example, gravitationally bound spherical bodies in space.

> both embodied and relational

Mumbo-jumbo, presumably meaning "both physical and abstract".

> that regulates energy and information flow

Vague bordering on meaningless. This sounds more like it's describing a transistor than a mind.

> within and among us

Completely ill-defined. Who is "us"? Is this definition impredicative, where "us" is defined over the set of minds? If so, it's useless.

It's cool if people want to spin yarn about how to define various difficult-to-quantify abstract concepts, but it's frustrating when they act as if they're talking about some sort of factual discovery they've made.

Re:Mind as an emergent self-organizing process by visarga on Sunday December 25, 2016 @03:53AM (#13253494)
> Completely ill-defined. Who is "us"? Is this definition impredicative, where "us" is defined over the set of minds? If so, it's useless.

If you think in terms of behavior, there is the agent, the environment and some kind of reward signal to be optimized. The article "is saying" (liberally adapted by me) that behavior depends on both the agent and dynamics of the environment. Of course it does, the mind learns its values from interaction and rewards.

Why are people still trying to solve the mind-body problem when we have Reinforcement Learning? It's a much better conceptualization - without definitional problems, concrete, implementable in both biology and AI, and most of all, it's simple. It does away with most words used in psychology and philosophy, which is a good thing, because they have really imprecise meanings. Just try to define "consciousness" or "mind" - it's a 2000 year old mess.

Re:Mind as an emergent self-organizing process by djrtwo on Sunday December 25, 2016 @02:03AM (#13253305)
I don't think this definition is quite as worthless as you argue. Specifically, you've missed the meaning of "relational". By "embodied" the definition means the physical (brain and rest of body). By "relational" I believe the point is all the stuff that happens to/around/in concert with the physical body and brain. You cannot decouple the brain from the external experiences of the brain, and so the mind must be considered as the processor (the brain) as well as all of the data (stimuli/experiences) that is input and output from the processor.