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Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by oxymoron on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:12PM (#13230731)
One thing often missing from the debate is this: version control is a fundamentally complex problem. In my view, it's a unfair to blame this complexity on the tools. The cockpit of an airplane is famously complex not because Boeing and Airbus wanted it that way but because flying a plane is complex, and because they couldn't make it any simpler.

Git has a fundamentally sound architecture, and with a correct mental model of what's going on you'll be able to deal with pretty much any situation. Nevertheless, you won't get beyond the simple use cases if your conceptual picture is incorrect, but that'll be the case for any VCS. I don't believe that git is necessarily superior to mercurial or take-your-pick, but let's not disregard that we're dealing with something difficult.

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by hyperpape on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:18PM (#13230782)
Version control is complicated, but git adds a whole nother layer of bullshit on top of it. Why do you use checkout to change a branch, create a branch and revert a file? Not because version control is hard, but because as a CLI, git does many things wrong (example from http://stevelosh.com/blog/2013/04/git-koans/).
Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by cyphar on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:44PM (#13231004)
> Why do you use checkout to change a branch, create a branch and revert a file

git checkout lets you check out files from a particular point in time. If you don't specify a path, it will check out every file. If you don't specify a point in time, it defaults to HEAD (like every git command). I fail to see what is confusing about that. You're not "reverting" changes to a file, you're just checking out a version of the file from the history.

`git checkout -b` is shorthand, and is shorthand that I personally don't use.

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by user5994461 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:31PM (#13230892)
> One thing often missing from the debate is this: version control is a fundamentally complex problem.

No, it's not!

I've been teaching SVN to Electronics Engineers, Designers and other folks who have never used version control before. It's always been very straightforward. They'd be able to use it effectively after a quick tutorial and demo, with a few notes of advice.

I've been teaching Git recently... until I gave up. It's a giant WTF clusterfuck. Git is the ultimate failure in simplicity and user experience.

Just use SVN (it works on git repo).

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by cyphar on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:46PM (#13231016)
> No, it's not!

Yes it is. SVN is so "simple" because it doesn't have many of the features needed by large teams working on code. It's simply not fit for purpose.

> Just use SVN (it works on git repo).

Unless you need branches (and merge them), code that doesn't get silently corrupted, a proper history of all changes, the ability to work offline without connecting to a server. Y'know, the problems that git was built to solve.

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by CaptSpify on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @03:45PM (#13232476)
> Unless you need branches (and merge them),

I use svn to merge branches every day. I do agree that git is probably more useful for more complicated setups, but svn is very capable of branching and merging.

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by cyphar on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:26PM (#13232761)
> I use svn to merge branches every day.

Has it gotten any better with conflicts? From what I heard a few years ago, it's still absolutely shocking (if two people touch the same file you can forget about merging your branch).

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by CaptSpify on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @05:39PM (#13233288)
I typically don't have any issues, but I guess that would heavily depend on your workflow.
Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by chousuke on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:14PM (#13231286)
My problem with Subversion is that it only really works well for trivial cases where you have linear and non-overlapping changes. It's great for configuration management, but not much else.

If you have more than 1 person doing simultaneous changes to a repository which might overlap, SVN becomes a pain to use because its merge handling is basically "Oh, there's a conflict. Here is the whole mess, good luck!" and you lose access to all the tools SVN provides for normal use.

Git (and hg) treat merges as an everyday thing, and a merge conflict does not leave you unable to do basic things such as commit or stage changes with the index, which is a huge help when resolving large conflicts.

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by slavik81 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:28PM (#13233559)
I've met people who have given up entirely on merging SVN branches. They just copy changes around manually. Coming from git, I thought their overly-cautious usage of svn was ridiculous. My attitude changed when I ran into revprop issues merging my changes and struggled to discover why some commits seem to randomly be missing svn:mergeinfo. I only had so much time to deal with the issue, so eventually I gave up on fixing the problem and just generated patches to apply manually to the other branch.

One thing I always worried about when experimenting with commands in SVN was that I'd permanently screw up the server. With git, I was comfortable in the knowledge that as long as I didn't push, at worst I would screw up my local repository. Even better, I could just make a copy of that local repository before trying something I wasn't sure about. I haven't had to do that in a very long time, but it was nice while I was learning.

git is not the first version control I tried, but it's definitely the first that really made sense to me. Sure, there's a bunch of badly named commands to memorize, but the underlying concepts they represent are simple.

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by vertex-four on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:06PM (#13231703)
Personally, I find darcs lovely to use. It avoids complexities like branches (you already have a filesystem - if you want to work on multiple things, you can have multiple checkouts) and provides a simple UI that shows you what you're doing every step of the way by default.
Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by bsder on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @10:25PM (#13234500)
Try Mercurial. It's mental model maps more directly to SVN.

I have successfully taught it to people like CEO's and CTO's with very little difficulty.

The problem with Git is that it has 3 areas of state (working-index-repo) instead of 2 (working-repo).

That makes things HORRIBLY complicated for the 99% of useful use cases.

Re:A Git catastrophe cleaned up by marcinkuzminski on Thursday December 22, 2016 @04:40AM (#13236100)
+ there are nice tools like RhodeCode to work with Mercurial repositories.