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Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by powera on Monday December 19, 2016 @06:47PM (#13216066)
Just because everything in the past was horrible doesn't mean we need to burn it all down.

We definitely don't need a culture of victimhood where anyone with documented ties to the past gets vilified.

Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by charlescearl on Monday December 19, 2016 @07:07PM (#13216179)
I think in stories like these the human tendency is to let rage from any number of personal experiences or perspectives blind us to real lessons that could be gleaned.

One lesson, we inherit complex worlds -- we work at corporations with dark histories, attend institutions built by slaves, use devices and wear clothes made by people who live their lives in horrid conditions.

Maybe we can't change that, but maybe we owe ourselves the human responsibility to grapple with those questions.

Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by mzw_mzw on Monday December 19, 2016 @08:10PM (#13216499)
It would be nice if we could have a correct understanding of the relevance and proportion of these questions, though. So a corporation made some sliver of its annual income selling insurance policies to slaveowners over a hundred and fifty years ago (the "dark history" you are referring to.) How, precisely, is that relevant to policy in the modern day, as opposed to an element of historical trivia?
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Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by tzs on Monday December 19, 2016 @10:38PM (#13217268)
Why are you assuming that when mzw_mzw said that these policies only accounted for "some sliver of its annual income", he was referring to this from the article:

> But by 1847, insurance policies on slaves accounted for a third of the policies in a firm that would become one of the nation’s Fortune 100 companies

rather than the part of the article that actually mentioned income, namely this:

> Its foray into the slave insurance business did not prove to be lucrative: The company ended up paying out nearly as much in death claims — about $232,000 in today’s dollars — as it received in annual payments

?

Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by colechristensen on Monday December 19, 2016 @06:56PM (#13216126)
At some point in the middle of the 19th century most people alive today will have had 64 great^n-grandparents. It's hard to imagine any significant portion of those ancestors weren't terrible people of some sort or another.
Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by xenadu02 on Monday December 19, 2016 @06:55PM (#13216122)
Who said that? The company seems to acknowledge the past and I don't see anyone calling for blood.
Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by ubernostrum on Monday December 19, 2016 @07:50PM (#13216413)
Just because everything in the past was horrible doesn't mean we need to burn it all down

Spoiler: this is where a solid libertarian argument for universal basic income begins. Since we know just about every distribution of property/wealth in the present day traces back to a use of force or fraud in the recorded past, but just about everybody has cause against someone, it would be impossible to equitably settle every case individually in order to create a clean slate on which to build a libertarian society. It would also be impossible to just declare "libertarianism, starting right now" and lock in the current known-inequitable distributions of wealth and property. Adding a universal basic income, given to everyone and funded by taxation of everyone, offers a way around this conundrum.

Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by wahern on Monday December 19, 2016 @08:54PM (#13216716)
No it doesn't. There's no immutable law of nature that requires that the use of force against distant ancestors is at all relevant to contemporary judgments of equality, justice, and fairness.

And there's no immutable law of nature that says a universal basic income would excuse any current or future disputes regarding equality, justice, and fairness. Indeed, UBI could even exacerbate feelings of unfairness in myriad, unpredictable ways.

The fundamental issue is that concepts like equality, justice, and fairness are highly dynamic and often far removed from most objective measurements of well-being.

That's not a critique against those concepts. Our need to feel treated "fairly" is innate. But the reality is extremely messy. The meaning of "fair" is constantly evolving, from the perspective of each individual, each community, and society-wide. And it rarely if ever means the same thing to any two people or groups, and hardly ever means the same thing to the same person across time or other context.

Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by ubernostrum on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @01:53AM (#13218011)
"Fair", to a libertarian, has an objective definition. No force, no fraud, contract freely entered by all parties. If that definition is not met, then it's not fair.
Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by Kinnard on Monday December 19, 2016 @08:00PM (#13216454)
Insightful. But still problematic.
Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by Kinnard on Monday December 19, 2016 @08:01PM (#13216458)
Why wouldn't those injured seek any due recourse?
Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by hvs on Monday December 19, 2016 @08:18PM (#13216532)
Who was injured that is still alive today?
Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by Kinnard on Monday December 19, 2016 @08:26PM (#13216561)
Injury is heritable. Just as the gains from it are.
Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by gxs on Monday December 19, 2016 @07:03PM (#13216159)
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Re:Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life’s Complicated... by vkou on Monday December 19, 2016 @07:16PM (#13216240)
Because this kind of stuff continues to divide us. Anyone who's black in America, today, still has to deal with 'this stuff.'

White supremacy didn't go home just because a few people put their signatures on the Civil Rights Act.