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Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by anotherhacker on Saturday December 17, 2016 @02:07PM (#13201922)
Yep... and it all started in the 1920s with Taylorism - the idea that management could be a scientific process.

Taylorism is why, for example, some companies still use lines of code written as a measure of productivity.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by ScottBurson on Saturday December 17, 2016 @02:31PM (#13202036)
You may appreciate my favorite Dijkstra quote:

[I]f we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as "lines produced" but as "lines spent": the current conventional wisdom is so foolish as to book that count on the wrong side of the ledger.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by Buttons840 on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:14PM (#13202275)
My favorite is from Bill Gates:

“Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight.”

It's appropriate on so many levels. Lines of code can be part of a measure of what has been accomplished, just like a heavy airplane is a great accomplishment so long as it flies. Yet we would never consider adding weight to be our goal.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by user5994461 on Saturday December 17, 2016 @08:33PM (#13203835)
The weight actually is a reasonable metrics.

It starts at zero and increases as the big pieces are added. It stops at a well defined number that is specified.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by DashRattlesnake on Sunday December 18, 2016 @01:40PM (#13206949)
It might be for aircraft construction but not aircraft design. Since programmers aren't typists entering already-complete programs, programming is more asking to the latter, not the former. You want aircraft to be lighter and programs to be shorter, and measuring progress by movement in the opposite direction is foolish.
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by naasking on Sunday December 18, 2016 @02:58AM (#13204828)
But weight relative to a final value is not a reasonable metric for completeness. It's discontinuous with irregular, changes, so it has no utility in predicting how long until completion, for instance.
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by user5994461 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @07:32AM (#13205570)
Sometimes, it's enough to know that the project is progressing.
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by dozzie on Saturday December 17, 2016 @05:42PM (#13203155)
> My favorite is from Bill Gates:

> “Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight.”

Nice. And then we have Windows that needs dozens of gigabytes disk space and can do nothing useful at all, while debootstrapped Debian chroot can easily serve a dynamic website backed by a database and weigh two orders of magnitude less (minus the data, obviously).

The analogy is quite apt, but the context of the author's company makes the sentence hilarious.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by Clubber on Saturday December 17, 2016 @10:54PM (#13204232)
Triggered :)
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by yummyfajitas on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:26PM (#13202344)
The fact that people do something stupid and attribute it to a scientific discipline which suggests they shouldn't do it does not discredit that discipline.

Similarly, the Ariane 5 disaster doesn't mean that the idea of measuring the physical world with science is wrong.

There's nothing wrong with Taylorism. It works very well in a variety of fields (e.g. Uber and Amazon use Taylorism very effectively to manage their line workers). The fields where Taylorism isn't used (e.g. software development) are far less reliable and effective - Amazon can guarantee that your package will arrive in 2 days, can you guarantee that your software team will ship on time?

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by anotherhacker on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:54PM (#13202524)
I wouldn't say that Taylorism is why those workers succeeded.

I'd say that those workers were successful in spite of Taylorism. Don't fall into the trap in thinking that just because a methodology was applied, that it contributed to success.

The best evidence I can give in support of this is Deming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehMAwIHGN0Y

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by teyc on Saturday December 17, 2016 @06:17PM (#13203323)
Apparently Taylors report was unscientific at best http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2006/06/the-mana...
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by yummyfajitas on Saturday December 17, 2016 @06:55PM (#13203472)
Lots of early physics was also not done very well, lots of fudges, etc. Does that discredit the idea of applying science to particle movements? Does Freud discredit the entire idea of psychiatry?
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by parenthephobia on Saturday December 17, 2016 @08:27PM (#13203820)
Physicists kept doing science, and it got better. Actual proper science has developed to the point where the computer I'm typing this on has a complex network of billions of logic gates which operates correctly billions of times a second. I can reasonably expect the CPU to continue to work for decades.

When managerial "scientists" can achieve anything even remotely comparable to that level of reliability and reproducibility, it will be time to take it seriously as a science. Until then, it just isn't one.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by yummyfajitas on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:53AM (#13205978)
Many fields don't give that same level of reliability and reproducability; climate science, psychology and environmental engineering are all in the same boat. Guess none of them are sciences.
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by icebraining on Saturday December 17, 2016 @06:27PM (#13203368)
can you guarantee that your software team will ship on time?

Sure. At the company I work for, we almost always deliver on time. You don't need Taylorism to do that.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by pjc50 on Saturday December 17, 2016 @02:58PM (#13202179)
The fundamental idea of Taylorism isn't bad, it's just hugely overapplied and oversimplified. Using pure Taylorism in the 21st century is like using pure Freudianism. There have been plenty of more recent innovations. We could at least start with W Edwards Deming.
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by pekk on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:09PM (#13202244)
A difference is that Freud didn't put any particular stock in the scientific method. He said that his theories were proven by his "cures" (many of which have turned out to be bogus).
Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by specialist on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:26PM (#13202343)
Even more so for contemporary education. Cohorts by age, class scheduling, testing, GPA.

Any learning that happens is in spite of Taylorism.

Re:Management theory is becoming a compendium of dead ideas by CalChris on Saturday December 17, 2016 @02:14PM (#13201945)
Google seems very Taylor.