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Re:The Idea of Lisp by lispm on Saturday December 17, 2016 @02:02AM (#13199676)
Given that most of the hundreds of Lisp implementations each have their own way to open a TCP connection, Clojure just added another incompatible one. To claim that it is a standard one, is a bit funny. Each of the hundreds other implementations could claim that, too.

Clojure generally added incompatibilities, since it is fully incompatible to any other Lisp before in fundamental ways. Clojure was designed with zero backwards compatibility. Lisp concepts were removed, renamed, redesigned. Even identifiers with the same name are doing completely different things. If it did something similar to what Lisp did, Clojure sure has it renamed and redesigned.

I doubt that you ever had talked to anyone from the ANSI CL committee. It would also have been easy to find out that Common Lisp was designed by a few core people (the gang of five) with lots of community input from 1980 to 1984. This part is well documented. 1984 the first version of Steele's book Common Lisp the Language was published. The ANSI Common Lisp standardization was started later in 1986, when the core of Common Lisp was already defined. Even there the major extensions were designed by small groups with community input. See for example how CLOS was designed by a few people (Daniel G. Bobrow, Linda G. DeMichiel, Richard P. Gabriel, Sonya E. Keene, Gregor Kiczales, and David A. Moon.) and by providing a complete reference implementation (PCL).

Re:The Idea of Lisp by pjlegato on Friday December 30, 2016 @02:05PM (#13286422)
You missed the point. Clojure's way of opneing TCP connections is standardized within Clojure -- all Clojure programs use a standard API call to do that.

Common Lisp, on the other hand, has no standard way of opening a TCP socket at all, because TCP was uncommon when it was designed. It relies entirely on (poorly documented, often unmaintained) third party libraries to do that.

As for your doubts, you can doubt all you like, that changes nothing. I am well aware of the history of ANSI CL, and I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with all the namedropping.

Re:The Idea of Lisp by lispm on Friday December 30, 2016 @05:41PM (#13288137)
> all Clojure programs use a standard API call to do that.

Clojure says nothing about creating TCP sockets, since Clojure implementations (all three) need to call the hosting systems call or emulate it somehow. The JVM Clojure uses a different call than the CLR Clojure.

Which makes it worse than Common Lisp, which has widely used socket support with usocket and some others.

> Common Lisp, on the other hand

Is a real language standard with many different implementations.

> It relies entirely on (poorly documented, often unmaintained) third party libraries to do that.

Each Common Lisp implementation has a documented and maintained way to open a TCP socket. Additionally there are compatibility layers like usocket

https://common-lisp.net/project/usocket/

> I am well aware of the history of ANSI CL,

Then why are you writing obviously wrong things?